Breaking into job market (IT) - Advice

[Touchstone57]

Hello there!

I'd really like some advice. Currently I'm looking for employment in China in the IT/Technology industry.

To give you a bit of background about myself I am from the UK and have graduated with a BSc Computer Science from a top University. After graduating I spent one year working for an NGO doing technical support and web development.

Right now I am an IT Engineer working for a prestige car retailer in the UK. This year I got married to a beautiful lady from China (my wife came here to study). Right now we are facing some difficulties in getting a visa to stay in the UK, and it seems inevitable that we have to move.

Because we have to move, I have been looking at IT related jobs in China, but it is difficult to find one that suits me, as I have generally do not have the required experience that a lot of these jobs in China demand. A lot of the larger companies (Microsoft, IBM, Intel) have a lot of good jobs available but they are generally more senior roles.

I have previosly lived and studied in China for several months, and have an intermediate level of Chinese after two years of part time study.

Can anyone suggest the best way for me to 'break' into the market in China? I'm just hoping I wont have to go into teaching English as I want something that is relevant with my career.

Thanks!

[gato]

Are you not a UK citizen? Why the difficulty with the visa?

[yialanliu]

Can you also mention what country citizenship you hold as certain countries are much easier to get work visas to china than others.

[liuzhou]

To get a job in the IT or any industry in China you have to be able to supply something which the Chinese need, but can't supply from their own work force.

Do you have that?

There are millions of Chinese IT graduates - some very good indeed - and they speak Chinese.

[feihong]

Unless you have some specialized skill set, there's no reason for a Chinese company to hire you over a local.

A possible path would be to just go into English teaching, and sharpen your skills in your spare time. For a developer, it's possible to get hired on the strength of personal projects. However, you didn't mention where you were going. I think it's hard to find an IT job where you can speak English all day unless you're in one of the larger cities. Your intermediate level Chinese won't cut it in a work environment, and you're likely several years away from reaching that level.

[Touchstone57]

I am a UK Citizen. Being married to a UK citizen doesn't automatically get you a visa anymore. My wife is currently here on a student visa, which expires in January.

Due to the strict and exacting standards set out by the UK Border Agency we are unable to meet the income requirements. The policy changed this year in July and made it much more difficult to get a visa here. Despite having an adequate salary that exceeds the required amount it requires us to six months worth of payslips, and it will not include any savings towards the target unless they are over £16,000.

I appreciate your advice. I currently am working as a infrastructure/network engineer though I doubt my skills are that specialist for me to get a job in China. I hope you will appreciate the difficulty of my situation as we are being forced to leave the UK and we will need to support ourselves in China.

[Cat Jones]

You have my sympathies - what a difficult situation. I didn't realise it was so difficult now to get a spousal visa for your wife. Is there any other type of visa that she can get to allow her to stay long enough for you to get six months worth of payslips? A tourist visa or something? I assume once you have this, you can apply for a sposal visa for her?

Finding work in China is going to be very hard as others have said. There is no shortage of skilled workers here already, and more and more are graduating in their thousands every year. You could teach English, but I can understand that this is not what you want to do in terms of progressing your career. There are a lot of tech startups here in Beijing, and in Shanghai which are funded/run by Westerners - jobs are often posted on LinkedIn. Are you on there? It's widely used in China now for recruiting. If you aren't on there - join!

Even if you do get a job here, getting a work visa can be difficult. So you could find yourself having visa difficulties in China. It's basically a major headache to employ a foreigner here in China, so why would they bother unless they have something exceptional to offer. Your income might also be significantly lower here in China, and the living costs are about equivalent to the UK.

If it's the case that you just need to gather the required number of payslips for the visa - would it be an option for your wife to return to China temporarily and return to you when you have enough payslips to apply for her visa? I know you don't want to be away from your wife, but it would mean you wouldn't have to take a career break and you would have a more secure future in the UK. I hope I have understood the situation regarding the requirements for her visa. If so, 6 months apart seems like the safer bet here.

Best of luck!

[imron]

A lot of the larger companies (Microsoft, IBM, Intel) have a lot of good jobs available but they are generally more senior roles.

You could try sending emails/resume to some International schools. They sometimes have a need for Western IT staff.

[gato]

My wife is currently here on a student visa, which expires in January.

Despite having an adequate salary that exceeds the required amount it requires us to six months worth of payslips, and it will not include any savings towards the target unless they are over £16,000.

So you basically need another few months of work to have 6 months worth of payslips? Wouldn't working a few more months in the UK be the easiest way forward rather than finding a job in China? Finding a suitable job in China would probably take longer than a few months, and such a job in China might not help you meet the 6-month salary requirement for the spousal visa in the future.

See here for some discussions of other options:

http://www.ukresiden...-16000-savings/

Need Help New Rules 18600 Or 16000 Savings

[icebear]

Your income might also be significantly lower here in China, and the living costs are about equivalent to the UK.

I just wanted to flag this as being inaccurate, even in first tier cities. Maybe for those with children or significant healthcare issues, the costs are high or higher than in the west. For those that are just looking to rent a decent but not fabulous place, eat out at mostly Chinese branded or local restaurants, and in general live a comfortable if not lavish lifestyle, then the cost of living here is far lower than in the UK.

[roddy]

I know it's not what you've asked, so forgive the unsolicited advice, but - if there is any option other than moving to China, take it, up to and including sending your wife home for however long it takes for you to get the income / savings up to the required level, and / or borrowing (why no, Mr UKBA, it was a gift) the savings from either family. Giving up what sounds like a decent job and making a reluctant move to another continent will not do anyone any good, unless it really is the absolute last resort. Might not seem like it now, but if a year later you're in a dead-end low-paid job and your in-laws are complaining you don't have the wherewithal to get their daughter into the UK, things could easily seem different.

That said - do you have any particular skills applicable to the automobile sector? Experience in specific software, or applying general software to that specific case, etc. China's a boom market for the expensive car industry, and direct approaches to either head offices in China, or the people in the UK / elsewhere who oversee the China market may well be worth a shot.

[Touchstone57]

i appreciate the advice given.

It seems feasable that she may have to return to China for a period of time and then reapply once I have the required number of payslips. My only concern is the difficulty in getting a visa once she is back in China - the application process is different from the one here, and right now the government seems determined to stamp out immigration, even if it breaks families apart. On paper we meet the standards I am just concerned they will refuse her reentry.

Right now I really enjoy my job and it is good for my growth as its my first proper job - but I have a deep passion for Chinese culture, I really want to live there and fully learn the language. But I have been waiting the right opportunity - Me and my wife would be happy to go back, but we need to be able to support ourselves. I would love to stay in China for a year and study the language - but I just don't know what the best option is!

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Touchstone57]

Any further advice on working in China?

[jkhsu]

I don't think there is a definitive answer on how to break into the China job market but the one thing you should do is take trips there and network. Just off the top of my head, you should be contacting these groups: your University alumni association, trade organizations that deal in the China market, expat groups for the particular city that you're interested in, job boards for foreigners interested in working in China, etc. See if you can take a month off of work and set up as many meetings as you can in China. Once you come back, you're going to be a lot more knowledgeable about your options. Continue networking and opportunities will start coming your way.

Keep in mind that there are a lot of people who would like to be living in China with a nice paying job (or business) but have had to choose another option because of various reasons. It's not easy but it's doable and you'll probably have to make sacrifices.

FYI - I did the above and did get job offers but decided to come back to the USA because I get paid a lot more here for the type of job that I do. While it's still a dream of mine to be in China again, I know a lot more about what I need for a comfortable living there, and I still haven't found that opportunity yet.

[Cat Jones]

One other thing to note is that generally you would need 2 years work experience to qualify for a work visa. You say you have one year under your belt? Again, worth waiting until you have more experience that would make you more employable.

The advice on networking above is good advice. It's very much about who you know here to open doors for you.

The other option is to look for opportunities in the UK for multinationals who might post you to China. This is where the real money is.

Did you check out LinkedIn?

[jkhsu]

I second the Linkedin idea. I just did a search under the jobs section for country = "China", keyword = "IT" and got over 1,200 results.

[icebear]

I second the Linkedin idea. I just did a search under the jobs section for country = "China", keyword = "IT" and got over 1,200 results.

This is increasingly a good resource, but please keep in a mind that many jobs posted on LinkedIn are for native Chinese speakers (but there are some for foreigners too!).

[Tianjin42]

Touchstone57 and co.

I’ve only just picked up on this post. I came over to China for academic reasons but felt there was a good opportunity here regarding increasing demand for foreigners and Chinese economic development. A Chinese friend had the beginnings of a HR firm that at the time worked exclusively with foreign teachers.

I have been helping with this for some time and will probably work closer still in future. We have now divided the business into a department dedicated to temporary – to medium term teaching, and a department dedicated to long-term/ non-teaching jobs.

We work with Chinese based groups so we receive positions from both Chinese firms/ universities/ institutions and also China-based foreign ones.

Some of the advice here seems sound – you will make progress by networking a little for sure. Do think carefully before coming here though, especially if you have a good set up back home. Sounds like you have a great attitude though Touchstone and I am sure you will make it work when you eventually do come here. I know some who came here teaching and then studied well whilst out here and moved into other positions after a year or so (sometimes into the admin of the schools for whom they worked as a teacher).

We have a monthly newsletter that we send out to our contacts containing new positions in China. I could send this out to you to keep you up to date if you wish.

Anyway, there are a lot of Chinese companies, for example, who require a foreigner but just aren’t au fait with the procedure etc. Though we are a Chinese company, I now offer guidance and so we can usually navigate the space between Chinese and (usually) western expectations.

For the non-teaching positions, there are a lot of mid-level to senior roles, but we do have some others should you have already accrued enough experience for a Z-visa (usually two years but there are exceptions). Sounds like you have one year, correct?

You mentioned IT. Depends on if we are talking front-end back-end etc. but we do receive a few positions.

I detest phoney adverts and recommendations on these walls so I’ll PM you further details. The group I am working for still have their old website which is very (ahem) Chinese. We are currently updating and when we are ready to go I will be sure to post details up on the classifieds of this site.