consultation on cantonese terms

[igo_online2012]

looking for experts on cantonese to consult with. the common term for action is "行动 ". but it does not sound that nice too me. i notice some terms, the characters can be swap and it still works. can you swap it to make " 动行 " and it still be understand. sound better this way to me. but i had trobule looking this up in online standard dictionary. i did get some references in search engine.

[skylee]

I am no expert of Cantonese.

But what is the purpose / context of the term? Why must it be in Cantonese?

Swapping the two characters does not work.

[imron]

but i had trobule looking this up in online standard dictionary

Please let me know if you can find the following words in an English dictionary: 'pertex', 'nesecanto', 'sultcon', and whether or not you think they sound better than 'expert', 'cantonese', and 'consult'.

Swapping parts of a word around doesn't work that way in English, so don't expect it to work in Cantonese (or any other language).

[igo_online2012]

swapping can work. example: 情感 and 感情. both works and are formal. there are other examples i guess but this the only one i can think of now.

this is just to illustrate my point. there are alternate terms and swapping characters to express more sophisticatedly and so on.

[imron]

swapping can work. example: 情感 and 感情.

Think of these as exceptions rather than rules. Most of the time it will fail.

[Takeshi]

No, no, Cantonese if often a direct swap of characters compared to Mandarin. 宵夜 (canto) vs 夜宵 is the first thing that comes to my head. (Also 歡喜 (canto) vs 喜歡 both meaning "to like" I heard of, but I don't really use 歡喜 to mean "to like" myself so I dunno; it's probably right though?) I'm sure there were a couple others.

I've never heard of 動行 though.

[imron]

I'm sure there were a couple others.

I don't doubt there are a couple. My point is that with the exception of a few words, you can't just go swapping around the characters and hope that other people will be able to understand what you mean.

[igo_online2012]

hmm... ok thanks takashi. considering cantonese is a distinctive language, though literacy-wise not that different from mandarin though there are differences. don't assume my meaning. i was just asking for that particular case, wasn't generalizing.

have an impression i heard that somewhere like either media or personal experience. i could've been mistaken that why i was consulting. if you not familiar with cantonese, don't shoot it down outright.

[lingo-ling]

There are numerous instances where a two-character compound word is expressed as AB in one dialect but BA in another. Mandarin 喜歡 (xihuan) vs. Taiwanese 歡喜 (hoaN hi), for example.

[fanglu]

喜欢 and 欢喜 are different words. 喜欢 - like, 欢喜 - happy.

[li3wei1]

Mandarin 喜歡 (xihuan) vs. Taiwanese 歡喜 (hoaN hi), for example.

Both of these are used in Mandarin, though there's a preference for the first. Perhaps they are both used in Taiwanese as well, and the preference is for the second, or perhaps one has been dropped. I wouldn't say it's AB in one dialect and BA in another.

[skylee]

I thought the OP asked about Cantonese and the word 行動.

Re the last remark at #8, I think I am very familiar with Cantonese, although I am no expert.

[jkhsu]

There are numerous instances where a two-character compound word is expressed as AB in one dialect but BA in another. Mandarin 喜歡 (xihuan) vs. Taiwanese 歡喜 (hoaN hi), for example.

There is some truth to that observation. This is exactly the same case in Shanghainese as well. They say "欢喜" in Shanghainese to mean “喜欢" in Mandarin. "欢喜" in Shanghainese does not mean "happy", it means "like". “喜欢" is not used in Shanghainese so it's not a preference thing for them.

http://shh.dict.cn/%E5%96%9C%E6%AC%A2

[igo_online2012]

mmm...seems like some interesting opinions has surfaced so far. i don't like it when people tell me i'm wrong outright when they are not knowledgeable in the matter to judge. even if you are expertise in mandarin , it don't apply to all other dialects. it better to admit you don't know something than to judge without proper insight.

i don't mean this as criticism, but as expression. a little humility never hurts anyone.

and i do think certain forms of expression sound/look better than others.

ex:

1.say the nature of the emergency.

2. state the nature of the emergency.

#2 sounds better to me, even though both are understandable.

[OneEye]

In this case, you're talking about making up new words because you personally think they sound better, not exchanging one word in a sentence for a more idiomatic one. Learn the word as it is, not as you want it to be.

I don't have to be an expert in Cantonese to tell you that you can't make up words just because you think they sound better than existing words.

[igo_online2012]

I don't have to be an expert in Cantonese to tell you that you can't make up words just because you think they sound better than existing words.

wasn't talking about making it up. was just checking whether it works or not in cantonese. wasn't generalization but going by case-by case basis. some terms are preferred in cantonese and not mandarin. and i'm familiar with the underlying meanings.

i don't like it when people tell me i'm flat wrong and they seem like they are not expert on the topic. if you are not a doctor don't diagnose disease. is there something wrong with expressing this? worst yet people like imply insult against you simply cuz they don't like the way you ask it or whatever. though not everyone's like that. what's wrong with you man?

some people seem to have an ego and need to assume superiority. if you are not sure you are not sure. there nothing wrong with admitting that.

[OneEye]

No, I'm quite sure that you can't just switch characters around because you think it sounds better. 喜歡 and 歡喜 are two different words, not one word with optional character arrangement. Words are words, you have to learn them as they are. If the word is 行動, it's 行動. I don't know what you mean by "whether it works or not," but it seems like what you mean by "it" is making up words. If that's not the case, then please explain what you're talking about more clearly. But in my book, switching around syllables in a word just because you think it sounds nicer is the same as making up a word (see imron's #3).

Anyway, a native Cantonese speaker (skylee) has already told you "it" doesn't "work." If you can't accept that, then I don't know what you're looking for.

[igo_online2012]

No, I'm quite sure that you can't just switch characters around because you think it sounds better. 喜歡 and 歡喜 are two different words, not one word with optional character arrangement. Words are words, you have to learn them as they are. If the word is 行動, it's 行動. I don't know what you mean by "whether it works or not," but it seems like what you mean by "it" is making up words. If that's not the case, then please explain what you're talking about more clearly. But in my book, switching around syllables in a word just because you think it sounds nicer is the same as making up a word (see imron's #3).

Anyway, a native Cantonese speaker (skylee) has already told you "it" doesn't "work." If you can't accept that, then I don't know what you're looking for.

opinions on fixed arrangement aren't unanimous on this thread. you seem to be confusing things or perhaps that just how you like to interpret things.

there are exceptions to this, i was just checking. you can accuse me of making up or whatever to save face or whatever.

情感 and 感情 isn't the only example.

[OneEye]

情感 and 感情 are two different words with similar meanings, that happen to be written with the same characters in a different order. But they're still two different words. You can refer to the 國語辭典 if you like:

1.　感情

注音一式　ㄍㄢˇ　ㄑ｜ㄥˊ

漢語拼音　gǎn qíng

注音二式　gǎn chíng

相似詞　1,2 情感、情緒 1,3 激情

相反詞　理智

1) 受外界刺激所產生的情緒。如：「他太感情用事了。」

2) 人與人之間的交情。如：「他們二人一向來往密切，感情很好。」

3) 觸動情感。文選·劉伶·酒德頌：「不覺寒暑之切肌，利欲之感情。」

4) 被別人的情意所感動，而表示感謝之情。如：「媽媽幫了他大忙之後，他感情不過，送了我們一籃水果。」兒女英雄傳·第二十四回：「伯父、伯母，今日此舉，不但我父母感情不盡，便是我何玉鳳也受惠無窮。」

1.　情感

注音一式　ㄑ｜ㄥˊ　ㄍㄢˇ

漢語拼音　qíng gǎn

注音二式　chíng gǎn

相似詞　感情

相反詞　理智

內心有所觸發，而產生喜、怒、哀、樂等的心理反應。晉˙陸雲˙與陸典書書：「且念親各爾分析，情感復結，悲歎而已。」唐·白居易·庭槐詩：「人生有情感，遇物牽所思。」

Something tells me you won't accept this either. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for, or from whom.

By the way, only one person in this thread has gotten personal:

what's wrong with you man?

some people seem to have an ego and need to assume superiority.

you can accuse me of making up or whatever to save face or whatever.

Why is that? We're just trying to answer your question here, there's no reason to attack anybody when it isn't the answer you may have been hoping for.

[lingo-ling]

Just to clarify my earlier comment (which was as follows):

"There are numerous instances where a two-character compound word is expressed as AB in one dialect but BA in another. Mandarin 喜歡 (xihuan) vs. Taiwanese 歡喜 (hoaN hi), for example."

In Taiwanese, 歡喜 (hoaN hi) means "to like"; it means the same as 喜歡 (xihuan) in Mandarin. This is a case of different character order in different dialects, but the same meaning.

In Mandarin, 歡喜 means "joy" - an etymologically related but different meaning. Different order within the same dialect, and different meaning.

(That's not to say that there are no cases in which swapping the order within a dialect creates a word of the same meaning.)