can someone explain chairman mao is still praised in china instead of condemnation?

[igo_online2012]

i'm glad xi jinping finally came out to slam mao 's stupid idealogies. great leap forward was real smart. i'm sick of mao's stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

open-mindedness and freedom of expression are key to promoting a progressive society not narrow-mindedness imo. if you want to be a great civilization, you get there easier by being open to all ideas, you don't have to adopt everything but at least you allow all idea to come to the table.

sun yat-sen a better man than mao imo.

[count_zero]

Because he's regarded as a war hero for resisting the Japanese and China's only option for one of those for the last hundred years.

It's a bit like how Americans overstate their own importance in WW2. If they didn't win that for the world then what does their military have to be proud of?

[anonymoose]

I don't think Mao is really praised. Maybe by the government, but most ordinary people don't care much one way or the other.

[liuzhou]

if you want to be a great civilization, you get there easier by being open to all ideas

Except Mao's? I think just declaring them "stupid and narrow minded" is a gross over-simplification of a much more complicated issue.

[WestTexas]

Maybe by the government, but most ordinary people don't care much one way or the other.

Are you serious? I have my students write a short speech on an important historic person each semester and easily 1/3 of them choose Mao. Also, he's on all the money. Every single bill 1 yuan and above. They could put any number of other Chinese figures on them, but no. He gets all of them.

Why is chairman mao praised? As someone else said, they think he's a war hero. Most of the students think that Mao is somehow responsible for removing the Japanese from China during World War II. They never say anything about the Soviet Tank squadrons running over NE China in a week, or about the US flattening Japanese cities with nuclear weapons. Some of them have some vague idea that the Soviets helped, but they seem to think the US did nothing in that war, and they believe Mao was fighting against the Japanese valiantly the whole time.

He established the communist party as well and drove out the nationalists. The nationalists, according to propaganda, were basically foreigner's lapdogs and super corrupt and etc. etc. etc.

Essentially, many (most?) modern Chinese credit Mao for where the country is today. He is lionized in the Party ideology because he is their founder and resistance to the party is dangerous.

Most Chinese under 30 years old probably have a dim idea, at best, of the great leap forward. Cultural Revolution is more well known, but still, I don't think they really know what happened. Many young Chinese are told in school that it was only the Japanese who burned down all the historic buildings, even in inland provinces they never reached. Some of you might be thinking they should know better, or that this doesn't make sense. Welcome to 1984. It's doublethink: it doesn't need to make sense.

Some of you probably think I'm exaggerating. Go to the National Museum in Beijing and visit the "Road to Rejuvenation" exhibit. Your Chinese will need to be good because there are no English captions. Once you start reading, you will probably understand why there are no English captions -- they don't want foreigners to realize how much they are brainwashing people. Anyway, the exhibit has pretty much no mention of the cultural revolution or great leap forward, and it paints the Communist Party as the ultimate do-good force against the incompetent Qing Dynasty and the evil foreigners jealous of China's glory. Of course, there are also the Nationalists, the lapdogs of the evil foreigners. The Communist Party did away with all this under the leadership of, of course, Mao Zedong.

[anonymoose]

Are you serious? I have my students write a short speech on an important historic person each semester and easily 1/3 of them choose Mao. Also, he's on all the money. Every single bill 1 yuan and above. They could put any number of other Chinese figures on them, but no. He gets all of them.

Noone's denying Mao was an important historical person. That's quite a different thing from praising him. Besides, I wouldn't exactly take what students write in an assignment to be representative of what the public in general thinks. After all, as you may have noticed, students tend to write what they think they are supposed to write, and not necessarily what they really think. As for all your other examples, they are all governmental one way or the other.

I still maintain that the average person doesn't hold very strong views one way or the other.

[skylee]

#5 has reminded me of this thread -> http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/38320-national-education-%E5%9C%8B%E6%B0%91%E6%95%99%E8%82%B2/

The booklet that caused the incident describes the Community Party as a "進步、無私與團結的執政集團".

[liuzhou]

He established the communist party as well

Er. no he didn't. He was an early member, but he certainly wasn't its "founder".

[Guest realmayo]

Taxi drivers like him dangling from their rear-view mirrors as a lucky charm. That's pretty cool.

[count_zero]

Mao's popularity is a strange and complex phenomenon. I would hate to have to write a "definitive" account of it.

You could make an argument that his stocks are rising. During the recent anti-Japanese protests and riots that swept China some were surprised by the number of Mao banners.

http://www.guardian....nds-in-pictures

Then there are rose-tinted projects such as Mao-style management classes. Red tourism has seen an incredible increase in recent years with government workers and even normal civilians flocking to the sites where Mao took part in important events in China's history. A lack of ideology in these money-crazed times makes many nostalgic for a simpler more black-and-white time.

On the other hand, the internet, improving education and a desire for at least some degree of self reflection has lead many young people to be fervently anti-Mao. I've seen internet posts calling him 大暴君 and 经济瘟神 that were not deleted. For many people that whole period of history is irrelevant and just something boring they had to study endlessly in school. For others, cultural revolution tropes are just something to make internet memes and 恶搞 about.

I would say that overall, China is moving away from idealism and the cult of personality. The "Red Chongqing" experiment has recently seen its main architect expelled from the CCP, which I would say is a significant nail in Mao's coffin. So I'm going to put a "sell" sticker over those red, red stocks.

[igo_online2012]

based on west texas's reference, i wouldn't be surprised on it. the ccp treatment of it's civilians is a load of bs imo. i beleive various credible sources have already suggested brainwashing of civilians through education for one.

this type of action is very criminal and a disservice to civilian population and the next generation. learning false and grossly distorted history along with suppression of freedom of expression can cause a dumbing down on personal creativity.

i beleive personal creativity is a key of intellegience and you have to wonder how much damage that has caused the next generation.

while i don't think taiwan , singapore, hk are perfect models but least they are virtuous democrazies. there is a lot of wrong with ccp. you have to like be biased or in league with the shanghai faction to not see it.

[liuzhou]

Based on West Texas's reference

Which one?

It seems you like sensationalising and simplifying the issue. It is a lot more complicated than you seem to realise. I think you have to do a lot more reading (probably not on chat forums - something more serious) then you will see the situation is a lot more complicated than you are painting it.

Sure there is much wrong with China and Mao was a disaster or worse in many ways. But it isn't so black and white.

Just yelling "Everything is shit" isn't very helpful in reaching any understanding.

[igo_online2012]

Which one?

It seems you like sensationalising and simplifying the issue. It is a lot more complicated than you seem to realise. I think you have to a lot more reading (probably not on chat forums - something more serious) then you will see the situation is a lot more complicated than you are painting it.

Sure there is much wrong with China and Mao was a disaster in many ways. But it isn't so black and white.

never said it was black and white. yea i agree i did simplify the issues. should i delve into faction struggle in ccp? bo xilia scandals. fulan gong abuses. the cultural revolution and the sparking of self hating , chaos and twisted psychologies which was sheer madness in simple terms.

the main point is ccp is a failed system and undesirable to society at large. you can look at the positive models in asia alone for inspiration. s. korea, taiwan, japan, hong kong, singapore.

[skylee]

Hong Kong, in its current form, is not a positive model IMHO. It is better than many places but it is not that good. It is not one of the "democrazies" (haha) you think it is, either.

[imron]

the main point is ccp is a failed system

The Soviet Union is a failed system.

East Germany is a failed system.

Mubarak's Egypt is a failed system

Last I checked however, the ccp was still going quite strong. To say it is a failed system is a bit of an over-reaction.

As for the other countries you listed, I wonder how model their systems would be if they had the same population as China. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't support the CCP and am critical of many of their policies and positions. At the same time I don't envy them the task they have at hand either.

[liuzhou]

ccp is a failed system and undesirable to society at large

So that will be why the PRC's economy is growing faster than any of the countries you cite?

What is "society at large"? Society doesn't get much larger than mainland China.

should i delve into faction struggle in ccp? bo xilia scandals. fulan gong abuses. the cultural revolution

It would be a lot more interesting than your one sided sensationalism so far. But you might want to consider that "faction struggle in ccp? bo xilia scandals. fulan gong abuses" are of negligible interest of the vast majority of Chinese people. They are much more interested in making sure that they have the latest model of cell phone.

You don't seem to know very much about China.

[gato]

i'm glad xi jinping finally came out to slam mao 's stupid idealogies. great leap forward was real smart. i'm sick of mao's stupidity and narrow-mindedness.

What did Xi say about Mao? Do you have a link?

[liuzhou]

You might want to consider that Mao died 36 years ago. Apart from a load of posturing by the Communist Party, his influence on China today is negligible.

Sure part of his legacy hangs over. In particular, the education system is still trying to recover from the cultural revolution closing it down for ten+ years. Most senior teachers / college leaders today were red guards under Mao. Had they been teachers they would have been killed or driven to suicide. But a whole new generation is coming through and the idea that they are all still following Mao is risible.

His picture on the money is irrelevant. I doubt very much that there is anyone in China who receives ¥100 bill and thinks "Oh! Great Chairman Mao" any more than an American receiving a $100 dollar bill thinking "Wow! That Franklin was the business!" Or any more than I think, "Wow The Queen is looking good" on British money.

It's just money. China's god! - Money, not Mao.

There are two Maos. The long dead historical figure and the symbol. Don't confuse the two. And don't confuse China and the Communist party. Much as the party would like it, they are not the same thing.

As to Chinese students faithfully repeating clichés about Mao, as has been pointed out, students write what they are expected to write. It shows no insight into what they are thinking. (Of course there are western teachers who are convinced that Chinese students don't think. (Usually unqualified and working illegally.)) It's bullshit. They are thinking, but they may not directly tell a foreign teacher what they are thinking.

Time to move on.

[Guest realmayo]

Well, you could say that maybe his influence remains on the leadership, in that they and their families suffered under the Red Guards so they're still suspicious of personality cults, charismatic leadership etc etc.

[igo_online2012]

well unless money all that matter to you… there a lot that matters other than money.

yea i knocked ccp for their gross misconducts, but that only because they are guilty of them. can someone serious find fault with that? you might want to consider injustices of that magnitude don’t really happen often in proper democracies like u.s. and even if they do, the system inclines toward justice , not that u.s. is without fault.

but in contrast with ccp in general, it is heck of a lot better. one can feel a lot more safer in general such food safety and justice system. and political struggles don’t end in muddy murder scandals. politicans in u.s. don’t have to fear getting whacked over politic fights. everythings non-violent. when hu jin tao and wen ji bao were in office, there were districts they fear visiting. attempts have been like made on their lives. they had like no military power and had to play it safe as leaders. what kinda system is this here? how can a leader be full effect working this way?

i haven’t heard attempts on ronmey ‘s life upon losing the election. there aren’t any place in the u.s. obama can’t tour for fear some factions out to whack him.

i’m sure ccp has some positives but the negatives outweigh it by far. not like you can’t get the positives of ccp minus their negatives with a proper democracy.

a system without the likes of despots such bo xilia and jiang zemin. a system that howls down tranny is bad ?

why do people defend the ccp anyways, you taking bribes in your pockets from the likes of jiang or something? whats to love? ccp milk tea? just beware that it could be tainted cuz inspections didn’t do their job right.