OneEye Posted December 11, 2012 at 03:35 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 at 03:35 PM It's been quite a while. The reading group here in Taipei fell apart back in October, mostly due to everyone getting busy with other things. But If there's still interest (hopefully there is), I'd like to continue with the Project. If anyone else would like to jump in and recommend some texts, I'm all ears. I'm currently reading the first unit of 王力's 《古代漢語》, which covers some selections from the 左傳. The first selection is 《鄭伯克段于鄢》. This week's selection is not especially short, and the 左傳 can be difficult, so this one may take some time. If you don't own a copy of 《古代漢語》, please don't let that keep you from participating! 王力's annotations are helpful, but there's also the Chinese Text Project (ctext) dictionary, which is useful in a pinch. You should also be able to find a PDF of 《古代漢語》 somewhere, maybe. The underlined text below (not including the hyperlinks, which I'm leaving in for those who may want to follow them) is not included in my copy of 《古代漢語》. The text is copied from ctext, and I haven't proofread it yet, so please point out any errors. I've put the paragraph breaks in the same places as they are in 《古代漢語》, which is mostly the same as on ctext. Here it is: 初，鄭武公娶于申，曰武姜。生莊公及共叔段。莊公寤生，驚姜氏，故名曰寤生，遂惡之。愛共叔段，欲立之。亟請於武公，公弗許。及莊公即位，為之請制。公曰：「制，巖邑也，虢叔死焉，佗邑唯命。」請京，使居之，謂之「京城大叔」。 祭 仲曰：「都城過百雉，國之害也，先王之制：大都不過參國之一；中，五之一；小，九之一。今京不度，非制也，君將不堪。」公曰：「姜氏欲之，焉辟害？」對 曰：「姜氏何厭之有！不如早為之所，無使滋蔓。蔓，難圖也。蔓草猶不可除，況君之寵弟乎！」公曰：「多行不義，必自斃，子姑待之。」 既而大叔命西鄙、北鄙貳於己。公子呂曰：「國不堪貳，君將若之何？欲與大叔，臣請事之；若弗與，則請除之，無生民心。」公曰：「無庸，將自及。」 大叔又收貳以為己邑，至于廩延。子封曰：「可矣，厚將得眾。」公曰：「不義不暱，厚將崩。」 大叔完聚，繕甲兵，具卒乘，將襲鄭。夫人將啟之。公聞其期，曰：「可矣。」命子封帥車二百乘以伐京。京叛大叔段，段入于鄢，公伐諸鄢。五月辛丑，大叔出奔共。 書曰：「鄭伯克段于鄢。」段不弟，故不言弟。如二君，故曰克。稱鄭伯，譏失教也。謂之鄭志，不言出奔，難之也。 遂寘姜氏于城潁，而誓之曰：「不及黃泉，無相見也！」既而悔之。 潁 考叔為潁谷封人，聞之，有獻於公。公賜之食。食舍肉，公問之，對曰：「小人有母，皆嘗小人之食矣，未嘗君之羹。請以遺之。」公曰：「爾有母遺，繄我獨 無！」潁考叔曰：「敢問何謂也？」公語之故，且告之悔，對曰：「君何患焉？若闕地及泉，隧而相見，其誰曰不然？」公從之。公入而賦：「大隧之中，其樂也融 融。」姜出而賦：「大隧之外，其樂也洩洩。」遂為母子如初。 君子曰：「潁考叔純孝也，愛其母，施及莊公。《詩》曰：『孝子不匱，永錫爾類。』其是之謂乎！」 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 11, 2012 at 08:23 PM Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 at 08:23 PM I have read through it (it took longer than I had expected). There are plenty of words that I don't understand, and I was too lazy to look up anything. But I think I get the gist of the story. Is my understanding below right? The lord of zheng had two sons. His wife preferred the second son. When the first son succeeded the father and got the title, he gave his younger brother a city. People around the new lord of zheng kept warning him about his brother's ambition, like the expansion of his land, but the lord of zheng did not take action against his brother until the latter planned to take the land of zheng. The lord of zheng sent a troop and defeated his brother. After this, his mother vowed never to see the lord of zheng until they were six feet under. The last part is about how the lord of zheng built a tunnel and made peace with his mother. [PS - I subsequently noted that it was the lord of zheng who vowed not to see his mother until they were both dead.] This is quite difficult for me as I have not studied it at school and the sentence structures (thank you punctuation), and the meaning of many words are so very different from what we use today. Which just shows that it is very important for kids to study classical chinese or else they won't be able to read any (Oh but it is equally important for them to learn maths, english, science, sewing, cooking, camping, sports, music, arts, computer, politics etc etc. There is so much to learn. Life is so difficult and complicated.) . PS - I didn't open the ctext link. It would have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobo-Daishi Posted December 12, 2012 at 04:53 PM Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 at 04:53 PM It would be interesting see what words had stumped Skylee, an actual native level Chinese reader. Ah, who was the one who made the vow? And wasn't this covered before in the previous thread about Wang Li's Gudai Hanyu? There's a url link to the Zuo Zhuan that now returns an error. Here’s a translated scanned version I got off the Internet. And here's a bai hua text version. 当初，郑武公在申国娶妻，名叫武姜，生了庄公和共叔段两个儿子，庄 公降生时是脚先出头后出的，这是难产，使姜氏很惊讶，因此给他取名叫寤 生，并且很讨厌他。姜氏喜爱共叔段，想立他为太子，屡次向武公请求，武 公不肯答应。等到庄公继位为郑国国君，姜氏请求将制地作为共叔段的封邑， 庄公说：“制地是形势险峻的地方，虢叔曾经死在那里。其他地方都可以听 命。”姜氏又改请求封京城，让共叔段住在那里，就称他为京城太叔。祭仲 说：“凡属国都，城墙周围的长度超过三百丈，就给国家带来祸害。先王制 定的制度：大的地方的城墙，不超过国都的三分之一；中等的，不超过五分 之一；小的，不超过九分之一。现在京城的城墙不合制度，这不是该有的， 您会忍受不了。”庄公说：“姜氏要这样，哪里能避免祸害呢？”祭仲回答 说：“姜氏怎么会得到满足？不如及早作安排，不要让她滋生事端，一旦蔓 延就难得对付了。蔓延的野草尚且不能铲除掉，何况是您宠爱的弟弟呢？” 庄公说：“多作不合情理的事，必然自己垮台。您暂且等着吧！” 不久，太叔命令西部和北部边境既听庄公的命令，又听自己的命令。公 子吕说：“国家不能忍受这种两面听命的情况，您打算怎么办？您要把君位 让给太叔，下臣就去事奉他；如果不给，那就请除掉他，不要让老百姓产生 其他想法。”庄公说：“用不着，他会自食其果的。” 太叔又收取原来两属的地方作为自己的封邑，并扩大到廪延地方。子封 （即公子吕）说： “可以动手了。势力一大，将会争得民心。”庄公说： “没 有正义就不能号召人，势力虽大，反而会崩溃。” 太叔修理城郭，储备粮草，补充武器装备，充实步兵车兵，准备袭击郑 国都城，姜氏则打算作为内应打开城门。庄公听到太叔起兵的日期，说： “可 以了。”就命令子封率领二百辆战车进攻京城。京城的人反对太叔。太叔逃 到鄢地。庄公又赶到鄢地进攻他。五月二十三日，太叔又逃到共国。 《春秋》说： “郑伯克段于鄢。”太叔所作所为不像兄弟，所以不说 “弟” 字；兄弟相争，好像两个国君打仗一样，所以用个“克”字；把庄公称为“郑 伯”是讥刺他没有尽教诲之责；《春秋》这样记载就表明了庄公的本来的意 思。不说“出奔”，是因为史官下笔有困难。 郑庄公就把姜氏安置在城颍地方，发誓说：“不到黄泉不再相见。”不 久以后又后悔起来。 当时颍考叔在颍谷做边疆护卫长官，听到这件事，就献给庄公一些东西。 庄公赏赐他食物。在吃的时候，他把肉留下不吃。庄公问他为什么，他说： “我有母亲，我孝敬她的食物都已尝过了，就是没有尝过您的肉汤，请求让 我带给她吃。”庄公说：“你有母亲可送，咳！我却没有！”颍考叔说： “请 问这是什么意思？”庄公就对他说明了原因，并且告诉他自己很后悔。颍考 叔回答说：“您有什么可忧虑的呢？如果挖地见到了泉水，开一条隧道在里 面相见，谁又会说不对呢？” 郑庄公听了颍考叔的意见。庄公进了隧道，赋诗说：“在大隧中相见， 多么快乐啊！”姜氏走出隧道，赋诗说：“走出大隧外，多么舒畅啊。”于 是作为母子像从前一样。 君子说：“颍考叔可算是真正的孝子，爱他的母亲，扩大影响到庄公。 《诗》说：‘孝子的孝心没有穷尽，永远可以影响给你的同类。’说的就是 这样的事情吧！” Kobo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted December 12, 2012 at 11:52 PM Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 at 11:52 PM Thank you. But you see I can easily find versions written in modern Chinese by googling the thread title. The internet is full of such information. The point of such threads, I think, is to read the things yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneEye Posted December 13, 2012 at 12:20 AM Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 at 12:20 AM And wasn't this covered before in the previous thread about Wang Li's Gudai Hanyu? There's a url link to the Zuo Zhuan that now returns an error. Yes, there's some discussion about it here. Thanks for reminding me. I haven't finished reading it yet, so I'll post back here when I do. Hopefully in the next day or two, but I do have a lot of other reading to do so it depends on how much time I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobo-Daishi Posted December 13, 2012 at 11:44 PM Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 at 11:44 PM Here are links to this thread's selection as it appears in Wang Li's Gudai Hanyu in text format. Both in traditional characters and simplified characters. http://hujun218.i.sohu.com/blog/view/145954230.htm http://www.saohua.com/shuku/gudaihanyu/033.htm Kobo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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