Changing from an L visa to a Z visa

[cnotes11]

Looking for a little reassurance...I am planning to come to China next year and if I like it perhaps stay on and find a job. That being the case I plan to pay for the outrageously expensive Chinese tourist visa (applying here in the US). From what I understand getting this shouldn't be a problem as long as I can obtain an invitation letter and other documents, etc.

I just wanted to know how reasonable it is to assume that if I like it and find a job that I will be able to obtain a Z visa without returning home? I've read a couple things about people going to HK/Macau to obtain Z visas but wasn't convinced. Seems like an employer, if they are decent, would assist an employee with this..... but just wasnt sure how this type of thing generally plays out.

All input is appreciated

[kdavid]

This varies by employer. Some can get you documents to have it processed in HK, some will need you to return home.

This should be a question you ask during the screening process.

Don't be afraid to say that having to return home would be a deal breaker. Schools may be able to pull some strings if they really like you, and, of course, they're able.

[cnotes11]

Thanks for the response Kdavid. What about the validity of a work permit issued in HK..... I think I read somewhere that these are not valid in all areas of China, is that true?

[Cat Jones]

I had to return to the UK to get mine. But my employer gave me paid leave, so in the end it wasn't so bad Your Z visa is only valid for your one employer, you have to have a letter of release to transfer the work visa to another employer. It doesn't allow you to work for anyone, anywhere. I assume that the work visa can be transferred to different areas of China, as long as the employer is registered to employ foreigners.

It takes about a month to get the paperwork you need to apply for the Z visa.

You should be aware that it's actually not that easy to get a Z visa (legally) even if you have a job. Many foreigners working here are on tourist/business visas.

[liuzhou]

Many foreigners working here are on tourist/business visas.

... and therefore working illegally.

[cnotes11]

It doesn't surprise me that there are many people working illegally in China. However, I've heard this advised against on a couple occasions. And when I say advised I dont mean advised in the same way you would in Vietnam or Thailand...like "yeah you probably shouldnt do that but no one will notice". More along the lines of absolutely dont do it. From the outside looking in seems like China is the type of place you could really be asking for trouble working illegally...thoughts?

Also if there are further comments on my chances of obtaining a work visa..... sounds pretty hit or miss but any guesses or opinions are welcome, doing what I can to feel this out before booking flights etc.

[liuzhou]

seems like China is the type of place you could really be asking for trouble working illegally...thoughts?

Usually not, but it depends what kind of mood they are in. Most people get away with it. People have certainly been deported in the past; some recently. You really don't want to be deported.

Also, like illegal workers anywhere else, you are likely to be underpaid and have no legal rights or protection.

The easiest way to get legal status (Z-visa is just step 1) is to be employed OUTSIDE of China to work in China. Coming to search for a job here is often more difficult.

[cnotes11]

None of that sounds good. I have never been deported from anywhere and would prefer to keep it that way. Of course if I can get a Z visa I will...just doesnt sound all that certain. Yeah unfortunately not an option. Currently do not have a job, and not exactly prepared to commit to one before coming to see what things are like for myself.

[Cat Jones]

I was initially out in Beijing on a student visa, when that expired I returned with a tourist visa to look for work and attend interviews. I was initially offered a job, but due to the employer having never employed a foreigner before they stalled for weeks trying to work out how to sort the paperwork.I got tired of waiting (and my visa was running out) and accepted a job elsewhere where many foreign employees worked. I started work when still with a tourist visa, and it took a month to sort out the paperwork for the Z visa. I think they can turn a blind eye to sort periods of working illegally while the Z visa is being processed.

So you can indeed do it the way I did, come out and check out the opportunities. But you will need to be prepared to go to HK or worst case to your home country to get the Z visa when you have the golden paperwork to apply. Also be aware about employers stalling in trying to figure out how to employ you, so you may need to extend your tourist visa.

Find out up front if they can provide you with a work visa, although many will promise it, some will never deliver.

Nothing is certain in China. Finding employment as a foreigner is not easy. For the Z visa, the employer has to make a case that a local Chinese person cannot do the job in order to get the working licence to apply for the work visa.

What we don't know is your background.

Do you have an undergraduate degree? (you need this for the work visa)

Do you have more than 2 years work experience? (you need this too)

Do you have an area of expertise? Something that local Chinese cannot offer?

[cnotes11]

The consensus I seem to be getting is there is no answer. Maybe it will work fine, maybe it won't. Thank you for the detailed response nonetheless.

"Nothing is certain in China. Finding employment as a foreigner is not easy." I assume this excludes teaching English...from what I have heard finding work teaching is not difficult. Maybe finding a high quality teaching position is harder, I don't know.

If I do come, like China, and end up wanting to stay I will likely pursue teaching as a source of income. I do have a degree and more than two years experience. My experience might even be viable viable there. However, I don't speak Mandarin and imagine most professional (non teaching) level jobs require at least a basic understanding of the language. In addition I have no interest in continuing with the line of work I was doing.

So to answer your questions

Yes

Yes

Yes, questionable whether its something that could not be done by a local but irrelevant because I have no interest.

Still at a bit of a loss with the visa, would have liked to have a little more certainty, I guess I won't know unless I give it a shot.

[Cat Jones]

Yes absolutely you can teach English. This is the easiest option, as there are loads of teaching opportunities available. And no, you won't need to know any Mandarin to teach English.

However, make sure that you take a teaching job with one of the bigger more reputable English schools. They are the only ones who will provide you with a work visa. I guarantee that others will promise you a work visa that you will probably never see.

I'm sorry there's no definite answer. You tick all the basic criteria so that should make it easier for you. You could contact some of the bigger schools online (like EF) to find out more about the chances of a work visa.

[liuzhou]

However, make sure that you take a teaching job with one of the bigger more reputable English schools. They are the only ones who will provide you with a work visa.

State schools such as universities and colleges can also usually provide the Z-visa and the documents you need thereafter.

Every province has a Foreign Expert's Bureau in the capital city. These are the people who authorise or don't authorise schools (and other organisations) to employ foreigners. I don't know about other provinces, but here in Guangxi they publish an annual list of authorised employers which they email to anyone on their mailing list.

If you are in doubt about a school you can either ask them for their authorisation number (which will baffle the fakes) or ask the FEB. They always have English speakers. I've always found them very approachable (not only in Guangxi).

[cnotes11]

Thanks for that liuzhou, the more information I can get on this the better. I posted similar things on a couple other internet forums and keep hearing that Chinese authorities are much harder on Americans than other nationalities. I guess this is no surprise but it does add to my degree of uncertainty.

Seems to be quite a bit of knowledge and experience on here. If people would be willing to give me a percentage guess as to being issued a work permit in Hong Kong that might help the peace of mind.

Given that I have most of the requirements needed and in theory will be able to find a reputable employer I think I have a decent chance. There have just been enough things said on here and read elsewhere that leave me less confident than I'd like. Coming and then finding out returning to the US is my only option to be issued the permit would be a disaster.

50/50?

60/40?

Thanks everyone