Laowai job market - overview needed

[Alex Whiteman]

Hi,

I'm planning to go study in China from 6 months to a year.

Since I'm taking this time off from work - and I will most likely want to return to the job market after this - I'm thinking about getting a job that will add to my résumé after that. So it'll be something like 1 year studying, 1 year working - with the possibility to expand on that if it's good.

Now, I don't know exactly how I'm going to do this. . .

Here's my profile more or less:

___________________________

Age: 32-33

Education: Bachelor's degree in Business Management, Master's degree in Finance

Languages: Spanish, English, French (B2/C1), Chinese (hopefully)

Experience: Most of my experience (the last 5 to 6 years) is in budgeting, controlling, reporting and ERP implementations - at a 2000+ employees organization. I worked at a small business at the beginning too.

I don't have experience in finance as the job market for that is not attractive in my country.

__________________________

I'd be willing to either work for a relatively low wage, provided I get the experience I want (intership, junior position, etc), or for a better wage at something I already have experience at.

My questions are:

a) who is hiring foreigners? international companies?

b) in what percentaje (more or less) of jobs available to foreigners are you expected to be fully fluent in Chinese?

c) what can you tell me about the wages?

d) what's the best way to go about finding these jobs? online? networking?

Those are more or less my questions. . . and the last one would be if I can find any of that in Dalian or whether do I have to move to Shanghai or Beijing.

[anonymoose]

Could you teach Business Studies or Economics? I don't know about Dalian, but you could get a teaching job in one of the larger cities, and you'd be looking at over 20000 yuan per month, plus possibly an additional living allowance. However, these jobs aren't as easy to get as English teaching jobs.

[Alex Whiteman]

I'd make a lousy teacher, as I haven't been in academic environments for some years - nor I've had knowledge-intensive jobs (like some people do).

Are there any non-teaching jobs?

[rkraft]

I don't know about Dalian... I've been twice to Keats School in Kunming and they arrange internships and volunteer experiences. When I was there one girl did an internship at a big hotel in Kunming and found it quite benefitial. Have a look at the internship intro on the Keats School website. If they do it, maybe your school in Dalian offers something similar.

[amandagmu]

There are tons of businesses and such in Dalian -- many are international companies (e.g. Accenture, lenovo, etc). There's a software park there and a lot of Japanese and Korean influence as well. I don't think the Chinese would be required - have you searched around the net to see what kinds of international companies have headquarters in Dalian? My guess is that they don't have many native English speakers jumping at the chance to live in Dalian, so you should have a good chance.

[liuzhou]

There are already several threads on exactly this topic.

To summarise those, as I remember them

a) To be legally employed in China, as in most countries, you need to be able to offer a skill otherwise unobtainable among the local workforce. That accounts for most jobs. With literally hundreds of thousands of Chinese students graduating with MBAs every year I'm having trouble seeing how a BA Business Management / MA Finance with limited language skills is going to be more attractive to an employer than a native speaker with an MBA.

b) Multi-national companies tend to send people recruited in their home countries rather than recruit foreigners in China. There are several large multi nationals here in this city. To my knowledge they have never recruited foreigners locally, but have sent in existing staff from home on assignments of various lengths, usually relatively short.

c) There are opportunities, but few.

I'm sure I have forgotten something, but people around here aren't shy will soon remind me, I'm sure.

[icebear]

I assume you're not interested in teaching. For professional positions it's not as bad as Liuzhou makes it out, especially since you have experience and are older that 25 (the big obstacle for most language students in China that want to remain, giving you one advantage) - although it is tough. Responding to his points:

a), the most obvious reason they would hire a foreigner is so that they have at least one worker fluent in English! Particularly written English (i.e. convincing, sharp business prose), where most Chinese can only churn out awkward garbage. Not to mention whatever cultural/mindset reasons they may have for employing a foreigner (white face in the office, different perspective on pursuing international clients, etc).

b) is incorrect; a large number of multinational consulting firms exclusively advertise positions to those that are already in China. This avoids paying expat salaries/packages/airfare, more than halfing the cost of a English-fluent employee. The phenomenon Liuzhou refers to is true in the case of many senior positions.

c) this is true - there will be opportunities you are well suited to, but more so in Shanghai and Beijing than Dalian, and in any of those cities job boards only go so far. While in Dalian I urge you to try to network into the expat community (i.e. via AmCham/EUCCC monthly happy hours) during your time as a student to try to open opportunities afterwards. Maybe seek internships while you are a student, although these may crimp your studies.

You need to clearly figure out what you want from that year or two and design your time around it. The position you take most likely will be a step down, but perhaps be in a location/career path than you prefer. Network like hell.

[Cat Jones]

It's highly unlikely that you will have Chinese language working proficiency after one year. Unless you are a fricking Chinese language ninja. So don't count on being able to apply for jobs where Chinese proficiency is a requirement.

Others have summed it up that you need to have skills that the local workforce cannot offer. If you are willing to start off at internship level, there are probably opportunities available to you. Start networking as soon as you can - online (LinkedIn) or in person once you are here. This will help you find out about what opps are available.

[liuzhou]

b) is incorrect;

It may be in some places.

However, of the literally hundreds of foreigners I have met working in China over the last two decades, apart from teachers, not one was recruited in China.

[Cat Jones]

However, of the literally hundreds of foreigners I have met working in China over the last two decades, apart from teachers, not one was recruited in China.

I was recruited in China and am not a teacher. As was my partner. So it's not impossible!

[liuzhou]

So it's not impossible!

I didn't say it was impossible. In fact I said it was possible. But, in my experience, it is not usual.

[icebear]

over the last two decades

How things were done 20 or even 10 years ago is irrelevant to the OPs question. I've been working as a foreign professional in China since 2007, and many of my friends in Beijing and Shanghai are doing likewise, and I can say that in these two cities its very rare to meet a young foreign professional that was recruited from abroad to come here. It just doesn't make economic sense when there is such a large and willing pool of foreigners already on the ground, who are acutely aware of the job market and what a reasonable wage is (versus having to be lured from NYC, etc with expat package).

Edit: although I concede, as above, that in Dalian it will be much more difficult.

[liuzhou]

How things were done 20 or even 10 years ago is irrelevant to the OPs question.

I wasn't just talking about how things were 20 or 10 years go. I was including today. General Motors has a large presence here today with a high number of foreigners, all of whom were recruited outside China. Same with the other multinationals / joint ventures here.

That was my only point.

I have already said things may be different in Beijing or Shanghai.

[icebear]

General Motors has a large presence here today with a high number of foreigners, all of whom were recruited outside China. Same with the other multinationals / joint ventures here.

In engineering/manufacturing industries its almost certainly still the case - these are one of the few areas where I've met young foreign professionals that were primarily brought over on expat packages (not local hires). Given that the OPs background is in finance and his experience is mostly office work, I didn't think this was applicable to him.

Concerning his original questions (specific to Beijing/Shanghai):

a) who is hiring foreigners? international companies?

To a large extent, yes, although I think it's worth clarifying what "international" or "multinational" can mean - a small family owned US/EU business with a branch office in China is also multinational. Of course there are your big Fortune 500 companies too, although these are much, much harder to get into (as elsewhere). If you come here thinking you are only willing to work in a Fortune 500 company you may find yourself disappointed.

Some companies friends of mine work for:

- a few at Chinese magazines

- HK PR firm

- Chambers of Commerce/Industry Associations

- Consulting firms (both multinational and Chinese) - business research

- Hedge funds/finance

All were local hires.

b) in what percentaje (more or less) of jobs available to foreigners are you expected to be fully fluent in Chinese?

Relatively low, although knowing some to a lot of Chinese will put your application higher in the stack. An increasing number of foreigners have spot on Chinese here, and if you don't its a disadvantage (rather than being an outright requirement).

c) what can you tell me about the wages?

In Beijing or Shanghai 15000 RMB is a reasonable entry level wage; most young professionals with a few years experience will fall in the 15-30k RMB/month range. Internships normally pay nothing, or perhaps a stipend of 100 RMB per day.

d) what's the best way to go about finding these jobs? online? networking?

All of the above. Not really worthwhile to invest a lot in this now, as your search is more than a year away.

[liuzhou]

In engineering/manufacturing industries its almost certainly still the case - these are one of the few areas where I've met young foreign professionals that were primarily brought over on expat packages (not local hires). Given that the OPs background is in finance and his experience is mostly office work, I didn't think this was applicable to him.

Many of the people at GM, including a good friend, are working in finance and other areas of business admin, not directly in engineering. All are existing staff transferred from the US or Europe or specifically recruited there for work in China; none have been recruited locally as I've already said. And GM was just one example. Most of the foreigners here are working in management, not in hands on engineering etc.

While, yes, it is possible (for the umpteenth time) to be recruited here, I'm still willing to bet that the majority of foreigners working in China (I'm not sure what you mean by 'professionals' in this context) were recruited outside China. Not counting teachers (many of whom are "professional", too).

[icebear]

While, yes, it is possible (for the umpteenth time) to be recruited here, I'm still willing to bet that the majority of foreigners working in China.

And I'm willing to bet that most around the age of 30 were hired when already in country, or found out about the job from abroad but via a local job board (with local hire conditions). Not surprisingly we have completely different expectations/experiences, but I still contend that mine are more relevant to the OP.

(I'm not sure what you mean by 'professionals' in this context) were recruited outside China. Not counting teachers (many of whom are "professional", too)

TANGENT...

By professional I meant the employer expectations include a specific, perhaps unique, skill set. You're right that most foreign teachers in China are incredibly professional in their conduct, but in many cases they could be replaced by a 22 year old with zero experience that wants to do a gap year and isn't professional in his/her conduct at all (but speaks English!) without the employer noticing or caring. This isn't true in what I alluded to as professional work...

[liuzhou]

You're right that most foreign teachers in China are incredibly professional in their conduct

I didn't say that. Nor would I agree, but it is irrelevant here.

[gougou]

I am not sure about the situation in Liuzhou, but the experiences I've made in Beijing (and also what I've been reading about foreign companies' hiring habits in general) are closer to what icebear described. Many large companies are trying to decrease their reliance on costly expats through local hires, which often have the additional benefit of speaking Mandarin and knowing Chinese culture already. Expats remain useful in positions where knowledge of the company's culture and processes is crucial. At Volkswagen, for example, most people under the level of senior manager were hired locally (many starting their job after having done an internship). I'm quite surprised actually that GM relies on expats exclusively, but hey, there must be a reason they went bust in 2009, right?

As for the OP's questions, I also concur with most of the rest icebear mentions in #14.

[liuzhou]

Once again. I'm being told the situation in Beijing and once again I'm saying it isn't like that everywhere. In fact, I'm pretty sure BJ and SH are the exceptions. My example was from Liuzhou; my experience isn't so limited.

For the last time, I am still willing to bet that the majority of foreigners working in China (outside education, possiby) were recruited in their home countries.

I also concur with most of the rest icebear mentions in #14.

So do I.

I'm quite surprised actually that GM relies on expats exclusively

Where did I say that?

[gougou]

For the last time, I am still willing to bet that the majority of foreigners working in China (outside education, possiby) were recruited in their home countries.

I of course wouldn't have the audacity to bet against you, but Hewitt might: according to this 2010 survey (see page 11 here), 57.5% of expats were "China hires" (i.e., expats hired in China).

Where did I say that?

I meant as opposed to local hires (which you said in posts 13 and 15).

All this just to say that the OP could do worse than come to China to find a job.