pronunciation of 尽管 [儘管]

[tooironic]

How is 尽管 [儘管] usually pronounced in Mandarin?

The other day one of my friends was recording a Mandarin-English interpreting dialogue for me. One of the sentences he read out was this:

尽管我妈妈比较体弱，而且还有骨质疏松症，但是她对交际舞的课很有兴趣。

("Although my mother is quite frail and has osteoporosis, she is interested in ballroom dancing classes.")

I've attached an mp3 of that sentence. Do you think he's pronouncing it as jǐnguǎn here, or something else? To me it almost sounds like jìnguān, but maybe my ears are deceiving me because of the pace he's speaking.

Or could it be that 尽管 is another example of a variant pronunciation, in the same vein as 因为 [因為] which is often pronounced by Northerners as yīnwéi, and Southerners (and the dictionary) as yīnwèi?

jinguan.mp3

[WestTexas]

To me it almost sounds like jìnguān, but maybe my ears are deceiving me because of the pace he's speaking.

Sounds like jin4guan3 to me

[skylee]

Personally I find 儘 and 盡 confusing, although they are two different characters in the traditional script. I can't tell them apart (ie don't know which should be used most of the time) because I think their meanings are very close. For people like me, the fact that the two characters are represented by the same character in the simplified script does not help. Perhaps this explains the pronunciation.

[tooironic]

After some Googling, I managed to find an article talking about the so-called "non-standard pronunciation issue" (读音不规范的问题) in Mandarin.

电视剧的语言不够规范近年来上演的电视剧普遍存在语言不够规范的问题,主要表现在:一是对白中存在大量读音错误。以收视率极高、影响很大的《金粉世家》为 例,这部总共四十集的电视连续剧几乎每集都有读音错误,如:把“尽管(jǐnguǎn)”读为“jìnguǎn”、把“纤细(xiāxì)”读为“q iānxì”、把“倾轧(qīngyà)”读为“qnīgzhà”、把“惩罚(chéngfá)”读为“chěngfá”、把“拖累(tuōlěi)”读 为“tuōlèi”、把“横财(hèngcái)”读为“héngcái”、把“暂时(zànshí)”读为“zǎnshí”、把“蓦地(mòdì)”读 为“mùde”。

Interesting, huh? Those who have spoken Mandarin for a while may have noticed these little discrepancies from time to time. Another one that comes to mind is 纤维 (xiānwéi) which I've occasionally heard pronounced as qiānwéi. 勉强 (miǎnqiǎng) as the non-standard miǎnqiáng is also petty common.

[andysun731]

Even the anchors on TV may pronounce wrongly. The standard exists in the latest dictionary or maybe in the college entrance exam(高考), but sometimes it will change after a few years.

[anonymoose]

Another one that comes to mind is 纤维 (xiānwéi) which I've occasionally heard pronounced as qiānwéi.

I'd say the qiànwéi pronunciation is actually more common than the xiānwéi pronunciation, in my experience at least. But note that 纤 is a 多音字 that does have the pronunciation qiàn in other words.

[creamyhorror]

On the rare times I hear in Singapore, it's more often been jin4guan3 (I think). It was a bit odd yet familiar when I started hearing the jin3guan3 pronunciation (in mainland media). My impression is that both are accepted pronunciations.

I'm also used to 惩罚 being read cheng3fa2.

[dwq]

I'd also mention that 管 in the recording is 變調 into the 2nd tone because of the 我 that follows, so it sounds like jin4guan2 (although you would write jin4guan3).

[David Wong]

I have also heard 提供 pronounced as ti2gong4 while my dictionary says it should be ti2gong1. I have also heard 说服 pronounced unanimously by mainlanders as shuifu instead of shuofu as given in a number of dictionaries I consulted.

[skylee]

I have also heard 说服 pronounced unanimously by mainlanders as shuifu instead of shuofu as given in a number of dictionaries I consulted.

What is wrong with shuifu? I think it is perfectly ok. Take a look at the Taiwan MOE Dictionary. It is also listed in the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian. (BTW the Cantonese pronunciation of 說 in 說服 is also different from when 說 is used alone). I would think that people saying shuifu would appear more sophisticated and cultured. haha.

[skylee]

But note that 纤 is a 多音字 that does have the pronunciation qiàn in other words.

I found this perplexing.

Then I found that, again, 纤 represents both 纖 and 縴 (as in 縴夫).

[David Wong]

I don't think there's anything wrong with shuifu, as I've been told by many native speakers from the mainland that's how they pronounce it. I just don't understand the discrepancy between actual usage and what's in the dictionaries I consulted. I realize that that's the standard pronunciation in Taiwan.

[dwq]

What is wrong with shuifu? ... It is also listed in the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian.

FWIW, Shuifu is not in the fifth edition, only Shuofu is.

And if you believe this guy, it is not in 辞海 nor 汉语大词典 either.

[skylee]

I have two Xiandai Hanyu Cidian. One, which I bought in Shanghai, was printed in simplified script in 2001 (3rd edition). It does not list shuifu, but lists shui4 for 說 and gives 遊說 as an example. In this version, shuike is listed as the old pronunciation of 說客. Which makes perfect sense.

The other is a much newer edition in traditional script and lists shuifu for 說服.

[dwq]

If you mean this one it was published in 2001, between the 3rd and 4th editions of the simplified version.

It is interesting that it lists shuifu when both the 3rd and the 5th editions don't. I wonder if this reading made it into the 4th edition only to be removed again. And I wonder what the 6th edition says too.

[li3wei1]

This may be one of those cases where there is no single right answer. If it's any consolation, people in the UK are still trying to figure out how to pronounce David Bowie's last name, and he's 66.

[skylee]

His birthday is 8 January. Heard it on the radio today.

[tooironic]

Honestly, I think this is just another example of dictionaries saying one thing, and real-life speakers saying another. The fact that the ubiquity of the variant pronunciation "yīnwéi" for 因為 is, AFAIK, not mentioned in any Chinese dictionary should be evidence enough.

[DespikableMi]

Most of the common variant pronunciation have been standardized in 《普通话异读词审音表》. For example:

强

qiáng （～渡、～取豪夺、～制、博文～、识）

qiǎn （勉～、牵～、～词夺理、～迫、～颜为笑）

jiàng （倔～）

供

gōng （～给、提～、～销）

gòng （口～、翻～、上～）

说

shuì （游～）

惩

chéng （统读）

The characters that have multiple reading depending on the meaning of the word are standardized in when to use a particular reading. While characters that have multiple reading with no change in meaning in every word are unified into only one pronunciation (统读). For example, the character 惩 used to have two pronunciations, chéng and chěng , and they both have the same meaning in all contexts. However, after the standardization chéng became the only reading for 惩.

Personally I find 儘 and 盡 confusing, although they are two different characters in the traditional script. I can t tell them apart (ie don t know which should be used most of the time) because I think their meanings are very close. For people like me, the fact that the two characters are represented by the same character in the simplified script does not help. Perhaps this explains the pronunciation.

The characters 儘 and 盡 are confusing because they do not differ in meaning and were used interchangeably. See 《康熙字典》. However, in places where traditional characters are still the standard, the two characters are used depending on the meaning of vocabulary (词形).

Or could it be that 尽管 is another example of a variant pronunciation, in the same vein as 因为 [因為] which is often pronounced by Northerners as yīnwéi, and Southerners (and the dictionary) as yīnwèi?

Jǐnguǎn is the standard pronunciation for 尽管.