Work Culture in China - the social side

[Cat Jones]

I'm looking to find out what people's thoughts are on the work culture here in China. Specifically the social side.

I'm the only foreigner in an office in Beijing, and there seems to be a growing number of events and trips outside of work. I understand the Christmas and New Year parties, but now it seems the Chinese New Year trips are starting.

There is a visit to a hot springs this weekend.

Now, the idea of getting semi-naked with my colleagues is something I'm not that comfortable with And hot springs aren't my thing anyway. I wouldn't chose to go in my own time.

I'm struggling to see if I'm expected to go on these trips, i.e. if it's compulsory, or if they are optional? I don't want to offend anyone by asking if I have to go!

Anyone have similar experiences?! Are these trips common in Chinese workplaces? Is it frowned upon not to go?

When do people get to spend time with their families? They seem constantly obliged to go to work events after long working hours in the week.

Thanks!

[kdavid]

When do people get to spend time with their families? They seem constantly obliged to go to work events after long working hours in the week.

In China, the danwei, or work unit, is an extension of the family in many regards. Chinese in general spend a lot of time with their colleagues.

I'm struggling to see if I'm expected to go on these trips, i.e. if it's compulsory, or if they are optional? I don't want to offend anyone by asking if I have to go!

You'll only be widening the divide by not going. Your colleagues likely already feel distance because you're a foreigner. If you're not concerned about cultivating a strong relationship with them, then don't go. Otherwise, it'd be a good opportunity to solidify these bonds.

[WestTexas]

IMO you can skip the hot springs trip if it really makes you uncomfortable, but you should definitely try to go to one of their get-togethers or something. If you don't, they might all think you are weird, unfriendly, don't like them etc. Just going to one or two occasionally will show them that you are normal and friendly.

[Cat Jones]

Thanks all. I have attended the Christmas party and one or two other after work events so they know I'm not a lotal misery. But the hot springs is just not my thing! I did miss some of the New Year parties as I took some leave for Christmas, but I hope this didn't offend anyone.

I guess it's hard to shift from the work culture in the UK where you wave goodbye to your colleagues on a Friday afternoon until Monday morning. Unless of course you have cultivated genuine friendships. I struggle with organised work fun :/

Thanks for your feedback. It's difficult not having another foreigner in the office to discuss this stuff with, and most of my friends work in foreign run companies where the majority of the workforce are foreign.

[gato]

If you just joined the office not too long ago, I'd say go but don't get semi-naked if you are not comfortable. You can still socialize with your colleagues without also joining in the skinny dipping, though that might get you even closer.

If you've been there for a while and already know everyone well, then you can be more selective about which afterwork events you attend.

If you are new, then go if just about everyone else is going. Go with the flow and don't stick out too much is a good rule of thumb for any new guy anywhere in the world. If, on the other hand, this trip is organized mainly by the office hotspring enthusiasts without wide participation, then you can safely give your apologies and decline the invitation.

[Cat Jones]

Thanks Gato for the advice. I've been here 6 months now, so am not the office newbie anymore. Staff turnover here is surprisingly fast.

[peterlkj]

I think it also depends on your position/seniority in the office. I'm in a similar situation to you, but noticed that it's typically the more junior folks who go, and the seniors often get a "pass", with the expectation that they probably have family/friends/other work or social obligations that take priority.

[Cat Jones]

Hi Peter, glad to hear I'm not alone! Does your office organise many activities? I'm senior(ish) in terms of the office, and much older than most of the more junior staff here.

[icebear]

Adding to peterlkj:

Keep in mind that most young Chinese' social circle consists primarily of their colleagues. Many Chinese that I know seem to spend time/room/etc with colleagues much more than you'd find in other countries (perhaps its an Asian thing?). This means it isn't awkward for most of them to have these weekend company activities - they'd be spending time together anyway. I also think that as long as you participate occasionally that you are being reasonable in skipping a weekend you especially don't want to join.

[Cat Jones]

Thanks icebear. This thread has been really valuable in helping me to get to grips with fitting in around here. I will be travelling extensively on behalf of my employer in the next few months that will hijack a lot of my spare time, so I guess I'm feeling a bit huffy about more work events. Especially naked jacuzzi time!!

[anonymoose]

Many Chinese people, especially those who have graduated from university recently, are used to being naked around each other. Most university students share a dorm room with at least 3 other people, maybe more, and the bathrooms and showers are all communal.

[Cat Jones]

anonymoose - I guess they are. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a massive British prude. I'll go naked with the rest of them in the gym. But I guess with people I have to have a working relationship with, I find it a little uncomfortable. I guess I am a prude after all!

[Scoobyqueen]

Our Chinese office also suggested a team working exercise in the swimming pool with spas where everyone could have fun and get to know each other better..... In Europe this obviously has other connotations. There was a scandal recently in Hungary with a big German company having invited their top sales guys to an event like this and it turned out to be a lot more than just improving team work. In Germany by the way people are naked in Saunas. You are not allowed to wear a a swimming cossie/trunks - surprised me to learn that.

[Understudy]

Getting used to the social element in a Chinese office took a long while for me (I've been in the same office for almost two years now). KDavid and icebear are dead on in their statements - the people in the office can often become something of a family, and spend far more time together than I initially expected. As a manager in the U.S., I kept my work life and home life distant from one another, and was often commended for doing so. In China, this proved to be a mistake on some occasions, as my staff never grew to trust me in my role. On occasions where I haven't had the desire to join because of the nature of the activity (Hotsprings, compulsive cigarette smoking, Baijiu chaos), I periodically explain that my doctor has told me to avoid such activity, and this is usually sufficient. Being the only foreigner in an office is a strange experience, but if you join in with your staff now and again, they will go a long way to make sure your experience in China is good.

[Cat Jones]

Thanks both! It's a relief to hear from other foreigners and their experiences!

Understudy - I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one reluctant to join it. I guess we will never fit in completely, but as long as they don't think we are rude or arrogant. I don't mind being the odd foreigner!

For me it's difficult as I'm not a fluent Chinese speaker. My team are all fluent English speakers, so I was hired without the need for fluent Mandarin. But all office wide team activities, and long office meetings I have to attend are all in Chinese (which is fine), but it makes for a difficult time knowing what's going on!

[jiminchina]

sounds like the work meetings are a good chance to practice Mandarin though.

[Cat Jones]

They are indeed Jim. I went to an away day on Monday as part of the Spring Festival celebrations where we went bowling, and played pool. I was with different colleagues who cannot speak much English, so it was a good chance to practice. I thoroughly enjoyed it. But I'm still glad I missed the naked jacuzzi event!

[Marakanka]

so how is it working out with attending/not attending events?

[cui ruide]

I understand well the experience of working in an all-Chinese office, but I had the benefit of moderately-fluent Chinese, and two years' experience dealing with Chinese roommates (when I studied abroad) and coworkers (when I taught English previously). At first I was a bit hesitant after the one other foreigner on the team left... Lunch antics, the usual Chinese-foreigner conversations, etc.. So I would sometimes skip out on lunches with coworkers to enjoy the quiet of lunch by myself with an overpriced Starbucks sandwich or MacDonalds and Star Trek on youku at my desk. That said--as with all Chinese social experiments--I found myself getting sucked in deeper and deeper. After a while, I actually began to just like eating and hanging out with my coworkers. I complained about a Sunday morning team KTV (cheapest slot), but actually, once we got going--scarfing beer and poorly-fried noodles as we went--I was having a ball.

I would liken this all to my experience with KTV itself: I was reluctant and bored by it at first; later it became a once-in-a-while, okay, mandatory experience once or twice a year; and eventually it became a way to really connect with people I liked and learn about others--their song choices, their microphone/song choice etiquette, etc--something I really looked forward to.

I was advise that relationships with Chinese coworkers progress by steps, each representing you closening relationship:

1. Work lunches and Extracurricular company teams (soccer, etc.)

2. Outside of work team events: KTV, movies, banquets, trips

3. Outside of work occasional hang out (as in, going to a movie just with a colleague or two)

4. Getting naked with team members. (In my experience, you often get naked at public baths/spas in the gender-specific areas)

I've only done the last with my good Chinese buddies in their Shanxi hometown where my host didn't have a bathroom. Still, I was cool with it once we got there and it was no thing, cause my friends at least treated me normally. For all the headaches of working in a Chinese office, I do miss it and my coworkers a good deal sometimes.

[carlo]

My first “only foreigner in the office” experience dates back to ~12 years ago, and I haven’t been looking back since. It’s a cliche, but I find that 95% of the real progress in relationships, both with coworkers and potential business partners, happens outside of the office. Going out with coworkers today is also part of the learning process for those other times you’ll have to socialize “the Chinese way” with clients or other half-strangers. If you stay in one country for more than one year, social skills are probably at least as important to your well-being as fluency in a language.

It takes a while to understand all the rules, so I’d recommend you go along just for practice, it’ll never be enough.