Help! Child born in China. How to keep two passport,. China n' America

[pandabear123]

Our child was born in China, I am an American citizen, My wife is chinese who holds American green card. Our child now has two passports,chinese n' U.S (just got one from US Embassy) . How do we leave China right now, if we leave China with Chinese passport, the chinese immigration control will not let my child leave because immigrations requires an american visa before leaving the country. (since my child is already American citizen, US embassy doesn't issue visa to American citizen). If my child leaves with US passport, the immigration control will ask for Chinese visa, if I apply for chinese visa, the Exit-Entry admin will find out the child already has a hukou). Soanybody with similar problem or experience can tell me how to handle this. Is there a third country to go by, so we can leave with chinese passport. How to go by a third country to America?

[jasoninchina]

This topic is an important one to me as my wife is pregnant, and several things you have listed do not match what I have found from research and talking to people who have been through it.

1. How did you get dual citizenship for your child? China does not allow for it.

2. With an American passport, you can't get a hukou. I don't know if that's a provincial thing, though.

If your child does indeed have two passports, it's an error. You need to get that worked out first. Then, assuming you want to keep the American passport, you need to make sure you get rid of the hukou. Lastly, you ought to be able to get a Chinese visa from immigration.

Honestly, though, I can't believe you have two passports.

[roddy]

This has come up before - ignore the title*, the relevant bit starts a bit later. Kdavid and at least one of the other posters is still around, perhaps they can enlighten...

*edited title to reflect actual content better .

[ChTTay]

"How did you get dual citizenship for your child? China does not allow for it."

Just because it's not allowed doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Take Iran for example, my Persian friends tell me you are not allowed dual citizenship but then they are all dual citizens!

[pandabear123]

HI JAson,

I am wondering how to keep two passport when traveling back to US. how to go through a third country.

It is easy to get two passport but it hard to maintain it.

When the baby is born, you take the birth certificate from the hospital (make it shows baby's chinese name not English name), your wife's hukou book, chinese ID, marriage license, your passport, to the local police station (your wife's hukou city). Then you get a hukou book for your baby. Then u go to the Exit-Entry Admin to apply for a Chinese passport, you need a passport photo for the baby, your wife's hukou book, your baby's hukou book, your own passport. Both parents have to be there.

After Chinese passport, you go to nearest consulate or embassy of your Country, register a child born abroad paper, turn in some application forms, in few weeks, you get a new passport of your home country for your baby.

It's simple, but the problem comes when you try to leave the country. this is where I need need help on.

[kdavid]

This is something I was interested in before I fully committed to moving us back to the US.

My former business partner is Canadian, and has done this with his oldest daughter. I'm assuming it would also work for an American child.

This was done about a year ago, so things may have changed. While he is Canadian, you can see how this could work for another nationality.

Here's what he did:

1. Child is born and issued a Chinese birth certificate. The name on the passport must be Chinese (if you want a hukou).

2. Get the Chinese hukou. (They wouldn't accept an English name for this when my former partner went.)

3. Get the Chinese passport.

4. Get the American, etc. passport.

At this stage, the child has both passports, and, technically, both nationalities.

While China does not recognize dual citizenship, it also does not recognize dual citizenship. This is not a typo. In other words, China will not recognize the American, etc. nationality until the Chinese nationality is formally renounced. This is done by exiting the country and *re-entering* using a different country's passport. For example, by leaving China and then re-entering with an American passport.

So what do you do if you choose to travel? The following:

1. Get the child a 通行证 to visit Hong Kong.

2. Fly to Hong Kong on the 通行证. They may ask to see the child's passport. In this case, show them the Chinese one.

3. Board a flight to wherever (e.g. America). For this flight, use the American, etc. passport. In this case, the child does not need a 一次性离境手续, so they are not required to renounce their citizenship.

4. You'll need to re-enter via Hong Kong as well. When you arrive in Hong Kong, use the Chinese passport and 通行证.

In this way, the child is not exiting or re-entering the mainland on a foreign passport, and therefore not renouncing their Chinese citizenship.

[gato]

2. Fly to Hong Kong on the 通行证. They may ask to see the child's passport. In this case, show them the Chinese one.

3. Board a flight to wherever (e.g. America). For this flight, use the American, etc. passport. In this case, the child does not need a 一次性离境手续, so they are not required to renounce their citizenship.

I am assuming that you will have to go through immigration control at the HK airport and then come back in for the next leg of the flight with a new document.

[fanglu]

I agree with Kdavid, but I've heard going via Thailand is easier since you don't need to apply for a visa in advance which you do for Hong Kong (of course it's called a 通行证, but equates to the same thing).

Fly china to Thailand (exit china on Chinese passport, enter Thailand on US passport)

Fly Thailand to US (exit Thailand and enter US on US passport)

Edit: If going via Hong Kong, it would be the same as Thailand - leave China on your Chinese passport, show them the 通行证 if they ask, but use your US passport to enter Hong Kong.

[jasoninchina]

I don't really understand the logic behind having two passports. First, you run the risk of getting caught. At best, they'll take your Chinese passport away. Depending on where you are at the time, this could cause some inconvenience. At worst, what do you think would happen? Fine? Deportation? I don't know, but I don't want to find out.

Second, why do you want both passports? Is it for the hukou? You can send your child to a private school without a hukou. And the visa isn't an issue either. With a Chinese parent, the child can receive a year long renewable residence permit.

If push comes to shove, I would want my child to be a red, white, and blue American; not live inside some grey zone in between. In an ideal world, China would allow for dual citizenship; but it does not. I wouldn't mess with it.

[kdavid]

I'm with Jason.

The old world of getting by in China by 差不多ing people is coming to an end. Law enforcement will get more stringent, and the gray areas will become more clearly white or black.

Chinese citizenship is only helpful if you want your child to go to school here; and that's a completely different conversation.

BTW: My son is currently attending a ("top-rate") public kindergarten on his American passport. No hukou needed.

Not sure what would happen once he needed to register for primary school, and, thankfully, we won't have to find out.

[fanglu]

There are also dangers having two passports. Although Chinese law says by gaining another nationality a Chinese person automatically loses their Chinese nationality, in practice (like all laws in China I guess) this is ignored when convenient. In the last few years a number of Chinese-Australians have been convicted of offences in China, having entered on a Chinese passport. The Chinese government has treated them as Chinese citizens. This has made it hard for them to get consular support, make arrangements to serve their sentences in Australia etc (see eg this article).

A baby is unlikely to be bribing anyone, but there could be other problems. If you and your wife divorced and there was a dispute over custody of the child, who was in China on a Chinese passport, I don't what kind of hearing you'd get in a Chinese court.

[pandabear123]

KDavid:

thank you for the information:

1. Get the child a 通行证 to visit Hong Kong.

2. Fly to Hong Kong on the 通行证. They may ask to see the child's passport. In this case, show them the Chinese one.

3. Board a flight to wherever (e.g. America). For this flight, use the American, etc. passport. In this case, the child does not need a 一次性离境手续, so they are not required to renounce their citizenship.

4. You'll need to re-enter via Hong Kong as well. When you arrive in Hong Kong, use the Chinese passport and 通行证.

I still don't quite understand how this works.

[imron]

It works because Hong Kong is both part of China and not part of China (1 country, 2 systems and all that), and so because it is China, you can happily visit there from China with only the 通行证 and possibly the Chinese passport. The authorities at the China/Hong Kong border never know about the US passport because you never need to show it to get in to Hong Kong.

Then, once in Hong Kong, because it's also not China, you can then come and go internationally on the US passport and no-one cares about (and neither do you show) the Chinese passport.

Therefore, as long as all of your entering is done through Hong Kong, neither side ever learns about the other passport.

[kdavid]

imron summarized that very well.

[roddy]

Point 4 is actually confusing me a little - do you mean use your Chinese passport to come in to Hong Kong from the States? That's kind of how it reads, but I would assume you fly in to HK on the US passport, and leave it on the Chinese one.

[Takeshi]

Yea, I think he means to use the 通行证 to go back into China.

I suppose it may be indeed impossible to find out if you frequently travel between all areas within the visa/allowed stay period,, but if you enter HK on a short visa on the 通行证 then come back to the Mainland years later I think people will realize something has gone wrong. Likewise, even if you enter HK on a short 通行证 visa, leave on the US passport but come back to HK and then back to Mainland before the 通行证 visa goes away you'll be able to go back into the Mainland with nobody noticing any problems, but since you entered HK on a US passport, the next time you enter HK on a 通行证 you'll still be fine, but when you try to leave HK on the US passport, it'll have your entry date as the last time you came back to HK from abroad, which might be a long time ago. So if HK authorities think you have been in HK all that time it might be a problem.

Or maybe I don't understand how it works.

But reading this thread just made me realize something. Is US/Canada/etc citizenship by descent transferable at any time? Like if one was born in China to mixed foreign/Chinese parents and takes up Chinese nationality but doesn't bother to register for their other nationality (so they aren't technically an illegal dual-national), could they like 50 years later after living their whole life in China decide they want to take up their other nationality, register for it (assuming they still have the papers required), and then renounce Chinese nationality then? That would seem pretty convenient.

Either way, the best loophole is probably just to give birth to the child in HK, but I don't think the HKers would be so happy about this.

EDIT: If I were the OP, I'd just let the kid keep Chinese nationality and renounce American, but then apply for the kid to immigrate to America as a dependant and get his child to get a greencard... but not citizenship. (Not sure if the US would look down on this though...) Then the kid would pretty much have access to China/US unless he leaves the US long enough to invalidate the greencard. You can't do this the other way around unfortunately, because I don't think you can get a Chinese greencard that way. (The other obvious disadvantage is that you'd need a visa to travel to most countries... but hey, at least you can go to Canada with a greencard!) Also, if you ever decide that you don't want the child to be Chinese anymore, it should be trivial to simply let him naturalize to the US whenever you feel like and renounce Chinese nationality then.

[kdavid]

You exit the mainland (to HK) and re-enter the mainland (via HK) on the 通行证.

The loophole here is that you don't need to present a visa for the country your visiting because you're not visiting a different country. Then, when in HK, you use the American, etc. passport.

You depart to wherever using the other passport.

Another way of doing this is to hold both passports, get an America, etc. tourist visa (in the Chinese passport) and do all of the traveling on the Chinese passport.

As the child is of that country's nationality, getting a tourist visa wouldn't be a problem, and could likely be expedited when submitted along with a copy of the Western passport. Though I'm not sure which line you'd stand in when passing through American/Canadian customs.

[roddy]

Pretty sure if you submit an American passport along with an application for a US visa in a second passport they'll send it right back and tell you to use the US passport.

"Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States." here.

Maybe if it's only a kid and you explain the situation, I don't know.

[kdavid]

In that case, you'd need to show an exit visa in the American passport upon entering America, so a 一次性离境手续 may be necessary. Of course, this would get you in and out of America once. Upon re-entering America for the second time, however, they won't see a stamp for entering another country (i.e. China) if the 通行证 was used to enter HK and the mainland.

Anyway, clearly a wide array of risks here. It's up to the parents to decide if it's worth the hassle and potential consequences.

[Lu]

Except wouldn't the child be saddled with this? It's one thing to do this kind of under-the-table-ing for yourself with your own passport(s), but who knows what kind of mafan this might put your kid in at some later date. Since you're not allowed to keep another passport next to a Chinese one, all of this is basically illegal and who knows what the authorities will do when they find out. Deportation, banning from entering the country again, who knows. And this will in the end mainly affect the kid, not the parents. Is a hukou really worth all this mafan and risk, is a visa not enough?