Improving Posted February 21, 2013 at 01:44 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 01:44 PM Within a negative sentence, where do I put 一起? For example: - 我们不一起上汉语课 - 我们一起不上汉语课 What's the grammar rule? Thank you everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valikor Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:16 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:16 PM I do not know a grammar rule to answer your question, but I do think both of those sentences sound wrong. I would probably use a different phrasing, such as one of the following: 我们不是一起上汉语课的。 我们不是同一个班的学生。 etc. Hopefully someone smarter than me can give you a more definite answer. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Improving Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:36 PM Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:36 PM Thank you for your answer! The problem is that the example I wrote is in a Chinese Grammar...but the solution is not indicated...so, I guess, one of those two must be right, but I can't say which one... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:48 PM Both sentences can be understood, but differently. The first one means that we don't do something together. The second one means that together we do not do something. So the first one means that "we don't go to the same Chinese class", whereas the second one means that "we decide not to go to the Chinese Class (and go to the cinema or go hiking, etc)". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joggerWu Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:48 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 02:48 PM I think you got it right for the first one 我们不一起上汉语课, the 2nd one isn't a real sentence. Does it say something about 定语? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joggerWu Posted February 21, 2013 at 03:01 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 03:01 PM Right, right, I'm with skylee for now. It's just the 2nd one sounds little awkward to me, maybe better not to use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Members Cassidy卡西 Posted February 21, 2013 at 06:11 PM New Members Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 06:11 PM I don't know the grammar rule, but as a Chinese, I think both of them are right, but they have different meanings. - 我们不一起上汉语课 We don't have Chinese lesson together. - 我们一起不上汉语课 We don't have Chinese lesson. Whenever“不” put, it negates the next verb after itself. such as:我不喜欢做作业，"不" negates the next verb "喜欢", means "dislike" but 我喜欢不做作业, "不"negates the next verb "做"，means "don't do" So I think both these sentences are right, it depends what do you want to say 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Improving Posted February 21, 2013 at 06:27 PM Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 06:27 PM So, they are both right? ...Then, why in that exercise I am asked to find the right one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted February 21, 2013 at 07:57 PM Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 07:57 PM Which book is this, and what's the full question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Improving Posted February 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 at 10:10 PM It is a Chinese Grammar book for Italians edited by Hoepli. That unit is about the negation "不" and the other one "没", and the exercise just ask to choose the right sentence! I agree with you all. When I read them for the first time, they both don't sound wrong to me, just different in meanings. But, because I was asked to find the right one, I thought there was an error in the first sentence or in the second one...I simply wonder if there is a particular rule or a criterion for considering as "right" one of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelyus Posted February 22, 2013 at 01:35 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 at 01:35 AM I agree with valikor above; both sentences sound ungrammatical to me. I've already spotted a mis-use of 一起 and 不 in the answer key of the Corso Base as edited by Hoepli. I think there are several issues here, and I think none of them relate directly to 不 vs 没. One of them is where adverbs that are not monosyllabic referential adverbs (in the words of Yip & Rimmington) come with respect to 不. The other is the inherent dissonance of the pairing disyllabic adverbs that must exist without 地 with a monosyllabic negative adverb. You could pick one based on the first criterion alone, but I'm not sure you have met adverbial ordering in Chinese yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joggerWu Posted February 22, 2013 at 01:57 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 at 01:57 AM Then I'm pretty sure the correct answer is the 1st one. As you can see both are the basic structure--主、谓、宾 for a sentence. It's practically where you place the 否定 that makes the difference, nothing to do with the 一起. As in 我们不一起上汉语课, orderly 主语、否定、状语、谓语、宾语, the 状语 ‘一起’ is modifying the verb 上 and then the preceding 不 is negativing the 状语 ‘一起’；conversely, 我们一起不上汉语课, orderly 主语、状语、否定、谓语、宾语. Since the negatory go before the 谓语, instead, which is accordingly negativing the verb 上. Coupled with the interpretation all the other guys posted, I think it'll tackle your hassle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joggerWu Posted February 22, 2013 at 02:15 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 at 02:15 AM Oh, almost forgot, the 2nd sentence is grammatical correct, but naturally wrong. It's as if when you use it in a talk with a native, they can tell both your meaning and your origin. Thinking about the "long time no see" in English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindmaxd Posted February 22, 2013 at 03:06 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 at 03:06 AM - 我们不一起上汉语课 We 不一起, means we are not together. - 我们一起不上汉语课 We 一起不 means we are together not So you they are all right,it you want use 没 replace 不,the first one will be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted February 22, 2013 at 06:15 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 at 06:15 AM My first instinct when I see this type of question is that the answer they want you to pick is "we're not in the same class" and not "we both decide (a together decision) to not go to class", just since usually I feel like people who write textbooks put in these kinds of examples to give you the chance to pretend you are a model student and not to say "hey we like to skip class". Either way both sound funny to me personally, I would say 我们不在一起上汉语课 to mean that we aren't in the same class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted February 22, 2013 at 10:29 AM Report Share Posted February 22, 2013 at 10:29 AM Either way both sound funny to me personally, I would say 我们不在一起上汉语课 to mean that we aren't in the same class. Would you say 我们在一起上汉语课？一起 is an adverb here, and 在 would convert it to an object, splitting it off from the verb phrase 上汉语课 and making it sound odd (to my ears). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted February 23, 2013 at 02:22 AM Report Share Posted February 23, 2013 at 02:22 AM I'm not sure what you mean that it would convert it into an object... It's still an adverbial phrase... I think the reason I inserted the 在 in the negative is because it feels awkward negating 一起 here... Though I guess not in every sentence ever, "为什么不一起上课？" doesn't give me the same heebyjeeby feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCsOfChinese Posted March 2, 2013 at 04:27 PM Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 at 04:27 PM Colloquially in Taiwan I always hear: 我們沒有一起上課. Was that a third option? You said the unit is about the negation "不" and "没" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIAKE Posted June 23, 2013 at 12:22 PM Report Share Posted June 23, 2013 at 12:22 PM It just like "不都" and "都不": - 我们不一起上汉语课：All of us don't take mandarin courses. - 我们一起不上汉语课：Nobody of us takes mandarin courses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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