First step to take to learn Chinese?

[K-man]

Hello everyone!

I recently joined the forum! So I'm new here.

Before I explain everything, I have to say that my English isn't that great (I come from Belgium XD) but I will try to explain it as good as possible.

I'm interested in the (traditional) Chinese language and I'd like to learn it. I know, it takes a lot of effort and time to master it but I will give it a try. I already downloaded a couple lists ( like the 214 radicals and some traditional Chinese vocabulary lists).

I started a couple days ago learning some characters but then I realised: 'How do I actually start with learning? Do I need to learn the vocabulary first? Or do I need to learn some grammar before heading to the vocabulary lists?' But right now I'm stuck. So I'm asking you guys if you can help me with it? I will really appreciate it!

Thank You.

[skylee]

By traditional do you mean you want to learn the traditional script that is used in Taiwan and Hong Kong instead of the simplified script that is used in Mainland China? Because regardless of the script I think most people start with learning modern Chinese (rather than, say, classical Chinese).

[Koxinga]

If you're like most beginners who don't know much about Chinese language(s), I assume what you actually want to learn is Mandarin Chinese with traditional characters as the writing system.

It would be the easiest to find a college textbook and learn new things gradually as they get introduced. This will give you a complete set of skills which are not as related to each other as in other languages (listening, speaking, reading and writing). Some examples of textbooks with traditional characters are Practical Audio-Visual Chinese, Far East Everyday Chinese and Integrated Chinese. You might want to find a textbook which has your native language as the language of instruction, as the books I mentioned rely on English. Be careful though, because many textbooks have different editions with simplified and traditional characters.

Most textbooks begin by teaching pinyin (the romanization system for Chinese). You should learn to pronounce it as well as possible. The pronunciation of Chinese is very important, because if it's not close to perfect (from a learner's perspective), you'll have a hard time being understood at all.

Good luck.

[laurenth]

I come from Belgium XD

Where? If you are in Brussels, you may want to take a class. In fact, wherever you are, if you have the opportunity, taking structured lessons with a professional teacher may be a good idea, at least in the first stages. S/he will give you an overview of what lies ahead and guide you through the first few stages of the Adventure.

In Brussels, if you really want traditional characters, you can try the Sun Yatsen school.

[Ruben von Zwack]

加油! (jiā yóu!)*

*lit.: add oil! Means like: Go! You can make it!

Chinese is a great language, and when you become more familiar with it, you'll notice that it is not at all that "dead serious" or intimidating as one might think.

I would have one advice for a newbie, looking back at my own individual mistakes, and considering that you said you have already begun to learn on your own:

Take the tones seriously!

Really. When I started learning Chinese, I was fascinated by the writing and the history and all, but kind of neglected the tones a bit. And only when I was more advanced I realised just HOW integral they are to the word. So every now and then a wrong tone from my early learning days would pop up in my pronunciation, and it's more hassle to correct an existing bad habit, than to start right from the beginning.

Now about grammar or vocabulary:

What I personally find sticks best in my brain, when learning, is having some basic grammar, and practice my vocabulary on that basic grammar. So when I learn a new word, I will make up different kinds of sentences and questions with that word, and while I write them down, I actually speak the words out loud in the right tones.

Oh well, but I guess that is all a question of individual preference. Some people do not even write at all!

So again, 加油!

[Shelley]

If you are going to go to Mainland China and plan to use your Chinese there, you would be better off learning simplified characters, if however you will be going to Taiwan you need to learn traditional characters. The Chinese you speak is the same for both, it is the writing that is different.

it is usual, but not the only way, to learn simplified first, adding traditional later is easier than you might think at this early stage of learning.

This is the first thing you need to decide.

If you can take some classes that will be very helpful, even if its only a few to start with or a part time course, it really helps.

If you are going down the self study route then you need a good set of text books, I used Practical Chinese Reader and I liked it. There is a new version now New practical Chinese Reader, this would be a good start. I also used as much other material as i could, internet, books, video, TV films, software, etc. and trying to talk as much as possible.

And remember its all about practice, practice and practice some more.

Keep visiting this forum, there's always something new/interesting/amusing/informative to be found here. questions are welcome, remember to include as much relevant info to help people answer, including your attempts at an answer is always encouraging.

Good luck and enjoy, learning Chinese is very rewarding.

[li3wei1]

The other decision you'll need to make is what romanisation system to use. Traditional character materials normally use zhuyinfuhao, or bopomofo (two names for the same thing), an 'alphabet' of japanese-looking things that stand four sounds. Simplified character materials normally use pin yin, which is the roman alphabet with, in some cases, strange sounds assigned to familiar letters, which can be confusing to people. There are other systems, but they're not widely used, and whichever one you choose, you don't have to stick with it. The important thing is that you learn it properly so that when you learn a character, you learn its correct pronunciation.

[skylee]

Traditional character materials normally use zhuyinfuhao, or bopomofo (two names for the same thing)

I wonder how true this is. When I learnt Putonghua, and it was decades ago, the teaching materials were in traditional Chinese characters and Hanyu Pinyin.

[li3wei1]

I was speaking from experience in Taiwan. There could well be publishers in HK or Singapore that use trad characters and pinyin, but presumably these would be for the local education markets. For the rest of the world, major publishers, the internet, would it be a safe generalisation that learning materials in traditional use zhuyin, and in simplified use pinyin?

[OneEye]

Actually, most of the textbooks I've used in Taiwan use Hanyu Pinyin. The Practical Audio-Visual Chinese books have 3 systems: Hanyu Pinyin, Tongyong Pinyin (which is useless to learn, IMO), and Bopomofo. Far East Everyday Chinese, the other main series for beginners here, uses Hanyu Pinyin. There is a series of books called the Supplemental Chinese Readers Series, which uses Bopomofo and Yale. But I think everything else I've seen uses Hanyu Pinyin, and many of them also have Bopomofo.

Let me second (and third, and fourth) li3wei1's comment on tones. They are more important than you realize. Don't wait until it's too late to try to "fix" them.

[skylee]

I really don't know about the generalisation. But I remember reading something written by Lu about Hanyu Pinyin being used to teach adult foreign learners in Taiwan. I am not sure if it was this thread, in which Meng Lelan asked if her students should learn zhuyin or pinyin to prepare for studying in Taiwan, and Lu gave her an answer.

[li3wei1]

I was speaking from experience in Taiwan.

I should add that my experience was about 25 years ago. I'm willing to concede that things may have changed a little, or that my memory may be at fault.

[Ruben von Zwack]

I can only speak for my Uni in Germany where even the textbook in traditional Characters uses Hanyu Pinyin.

In my personal opinion, Taiwanese Bopomofo is even better than sliced bread. I made the little extra effort to learn it, so now I can use a Taiwanese "Guoyu" dictionary

[K-man]

Thank you for all the information and advices!! @ Shelley: I managed to get a copy of the book you mentioned before. It's a really good book! Everything is explained well. Thank you! @ Ruben von Zwack: Haha, yes you're right! I was also fascinated by the characters and the certain stories about them. I will pay extra attention on the speaking part (which is the most difficult part for me, with all the certain tones). Thank You!

[heifeng]

Hello & Welcome!

Something that helped me from day 1 of learning Chinese was finding a language partner* (also this was before the internet...so maybe you can do the same 'online' now) in addition to & to re-inforce what you have learned from self studying (Vocabulary, useful phrases & characters/writing). Usually if you post for a language exchange near a university you will have an enthusiastic response, but you may need to specify 'Standard Mandarin' or something like that so that you get off to a somewhat standard start. If someone is a student (especially grad student who completed undergrad in China, for example Beijing--or maybe even Taipei, Taiwan (perhaps others can vouch for this, I just didn't want to narrow it down too much)) you will probably have a reasonably knowledgeable study partner.(I'd recommend them sending an email with a brief introduction so you can narrow it down). Especially if you do not plan on taking formal classes, you will need to interact with someone so that you can gain some conversational Chinese skills & improve your listening comprehension in a real life situation/with human beings. Even if you DO take a formal class, there is only so much 'interaction' that can be covered per class section, so it is nice to have more opportunities to USE what you are learning.

In terms of reading and writing, whether you choose simplified or traditional, it's up to you & what resources you readily have available & what teaching materials any class you attend may offer. In any case, you can (and probably should) become familiar with both down the road. (I personally switched from Traditional to Simplified after about 3 years of study when our university materials no longer offered the Traditional textbooks & materials....and I'm still alive to tell the story...my head did not in fact explode even though it sometimes does experience a slight character recognition time delay.)

_______

*My 4th study partner was from a university & is actually now a professor and my very 1st study partner was a waitress at a Chinese restaurant who had newly immigrated to the US. I was able to help her with adult ESL homework & she helped me with my very basic Chinese (my 2nd & 3rd study partners didn't last quite as long, but also were very interesting!). Soooo, there are some pretty great, hilarious memories & friendships from all of these experiences....so there are 'opportunities' to meet great people and learn more about each other's culture AS you learn the language:)

[PengHaoShi]

Here are some tools I am using:

- www.skritter.com for learning characters, my wife also started learning Chinese, this was at the end of December last year. Now, she has learnt already more than 600 characters with Skritter, although she has a busy, full time job.

- chinesepod.com for listening skills, their pods are very interesting and they use really everyday language, however, this doesn't substitute a formal course, but is a nice add-on, especially if you do not live in a Chinese-speaking environment,

- italki.com, I once got a Chinese teacher from there, lessons via skype, my teacher was an English teacher in a middle school in a northern province of China. Lessons cost normaly around 60 - 80 RMB (10 - 13 $) / 60 min.

- Pleco.com on my iPhone / iPad as my dictionary of choice.

I also support the suggestion from others here, to pay attention to your pronunciation, it might also impact your listening skill, if you have a wrong concept in your mind how words are pronounced. So you would need somebody to help you with pronunciation. I doubt, that you can learn this by yourself without having somebody correcting you. There might be some people, who have done this, but I think, these are rare cases, especialy if you are not living in a Chinese speaking environment.

[renzhe]

I'd just say that it's probably a good idea to use English-language textbooks, since your English is good enough. Chinese learning textbooks are very much hit-and-miss, and there are several popular and high-quality options in English, both in traditional and simplified.

Some of those popular textbooks now have versions in other languages (e.g. German version of NPCR), but I don't know how it is for French/Flemish.

Getting a teacher or a tutor is always a good idea, especially if you are not experienced in learning foreign languages on your own.

[Joseph Kimbrell]

PengHaoShi, great resources! Thanks for those. What would you recommend as a total-beginner's book also? I like being able to take books with me on the train, etc.

I've heard "Beginner's Chinese" by Yong Ho is a really good beginner's book. Anyone ever used this one?

[Lu]

If you speak Dutch, you could try Chinees in tien verdiepingen. It's designed to teach Chinese to secondary school students, so it might be a bit slow for you, but you can perhaps take a look. I don't have any recommendations for French textbooks, but since French people don't always speak great English and they do have a very strong Chinese department in Paris, I imagine there must be some good books.

And yes from my experience (2004-2005), even in Taiwan, Hanyu pinyin is used to teach foreign students Chinese, although outside of the classroom few people know it, so textbooks from Taiwan can also be used.