Gathering thoughts on Zhejiang or Beijing Language and Culture Uni- Your input would be most appreciated

[GotJack]

Current Situation

As far as I understand, I have been awarded the CGS award for the coming year (Sep 2013-May 2014) to study Mandarin. Im not entirely confident, but I have been in contact with my representative at the embassy who assures me I have, as well as having received a scholarship award certificate (which I have posted in the EU thread). Although this seems early to be informed compared to other candidates , I believe my case is like this because I am from the U.K and as such am in the EU window and so am in a slightly different situation to other applicants.

On receiving the award the embassy representative instructed me to contact directly my preferred universities to get an admission notice. Both my top 2 choices now have replied granting me admission, and now I have to decide between then two.

My two preferred universities are Zhejiang University and Beijing Language and Culture University. Although I could very well not have received the scholarship (as I never feel 100% confident in any process involving China), my hope is too share my thoughts and concerns on the pro's and con's of both uni's. With this I would ask if you could add any helpful thought or comments based on your experiences. In this way, hopefully I will be able to make a more informed decision as to with university to chose.

A little summary of my past. I have been self teaching Mandarin for about a year, as well as having a weekly session with a native speaker(fellow student) just practising pronunciation, and am now at HSK level 2. This Easter I spent 3 weeks in Hangzhou at Zhejiang University as part of a Study China programme (this comprised of cultural and language lessons as well as lots of trips)

Beijing Language & Culture

• Its in Beijing, a capital city, which I presume will be more Westernised. As such it should be easier to live in in terms of home comforts. I have however heard that both the weather and pollution are genuinely unpleasant
  
• The native Beijinger speaks with a good accent, as such its makes for a good environment to learn outside of class (again this is a presumption)
  
• Beijing is much more recognisable on a C.V to a Western employer, as such my guess is it carries more weight as an accomplishment
  
• I have an idea that I may stay after my year for employment. I imagine Beijing is (similar to London) where a number of jobs will be availble
  
• The university is specialises in teaching language: as such it would seem to make sense that perhaps the course is delivered better.
  
• The accommodation sounds atrocious (having looked on the BLCU thread on this site)
  
• It sounds like somewhat of a party university. I am looking for a balance so this isn't something I would mind too much.
  
• There will be a lot of internationals in the city that will have a good command of English. This in all likelihood will allow me to be lazy, and as such may slow my speed of learning
  

Zhejiang University

• First and foremost, I have already spent 3 weeks here and thoroughly enjoyed it. This counts for alot to me, as I know exactly what Im getting and there is a sense of stability and happiness in this.
  
• Although I was surprised how un-western the city was, its was at a good level.
  
• Zhejiang doesn't specialise in Language. Perhaps the course will suffer for this? as I get the impression the International College in the university is a very small outfit
  
• Supposedly the natives speak Hangzhou dialect, obviously my Mandarin was not at a level too test this whilst I was there, but if this is the case it could limit my learning as I would be looking to use Mandarin at all times
  
• The city itself (although with a huge population) did not seem to have an endless list of activities. As such would it be boring of me to go somewhere I'd already been? Although Shanghai was 40 mins away on the fast train
  
• I would be looking to do part-time English tuition, I know there was considerable demand for this in Hangzhou
  

Please free to challenge my assumptions and add any comments you thing would be useful for me to take into account. Finally I've added a poll to gauge where you guys would go.

Thankyou for your input

Jack

[JustinJJ]

I have lived in Beijing for almost a year. Here are my thoughts.

•The weather and pollution is pretty terrible but I'm not sure how this would compare to Zhejiang.

•Many (most?) people you speak to will not be native Beijing people but they will speak mandarin anyway. I imagine in zhejiang people would also speak mandarin, but depending on your interest, you would have a chance to learnsolve dialect (or listen when passing time on the subway etc) also. •As long as your teachers use standard mandarin (highly likely) it shouldn't be an issue.

•I don't think the CV point should be a consideration; employers will only care about your ability to use the language.

•Having learnt at a private school I'm not sure about the accommodation at blcu but renting off campus will not be cheap if you are not happy with the quality.

•If you are parting with Chinese people that's probably an OK way to practise your Chinese, but I'd highly suggest making sure you meet people who speak NO English rather than Chinese students at your uni otherwise you will be a free English teacher. I think you should try to develop the habit of feeling uncomfortable speaking English to Chinese people in a non-teaching environment.

• You don't have to be lazy in Beijing.. When I came I knew next to know Chinese having only learnt a few weeks, but forced myself to use no English at all, including renting an apartment, etc. I'm teaching part time now but prior to this i'd regularly have periods where I wouldn't use english for a couple of weeks. it's stressful and awkward but I think learning the language is so time consuming that using it whenever possible is necessary.

Good luck!

[Angelina]

What is your background? What kind of a job will you be looking for after one year? You mentioned that you are concerned about what Western employers would think of your choice of school, so you are probably planning to work in the business sector, for a Western company. There are much more foreign companies based in Shanghai than there are in Beijing. I'd recommend you to choose Zhejiang University and then look for a job in Shanghai.

It's illegal to work part time while studying. Again, Hangzhou is slightly cheaper than Beijing, so that monthly allowance will be worth more and you wouldn't have to work. You can always order food from Shanghai if you want to indulge yourself with Western food.

BLCU specializes in teaching Chinese and teaching quality is pretty high. I studied Chinese there for a year and can't complain. The teachers would assign us homework on a daily basis and they would motivate us to study. The school has it's own textbooks. They let you choose your class if you aren't comfortable with where the placement test put you. You can even skip levels when you register for the second semester. It's famous for being a party-school, but nobody can force you to party if you don't want to. If you do want to party, you have many options.

Accommodation for scholarship students is terrible. You have to pay the difference if you want to live somewhere more decent.

I'm not sure how language studies are organized at Zhejiang. It's a great school overall.

Don't worry about possible opportunities to practice Putonghua, there would be plenty of opportunities anywhere in China.

[ChTTay]

Go to BLCU

[JenniferW]

Much as Hangzhou's an interesting place, I'd say if BLCU are offering a place, and you have any serious long-term ambitions as regards using Chinese, working in China, etc, take the BLCU place. I worked in China for 6 years. Status really matters - saying you studied Chinese at BLCU in itself means people will take notice. Long-term, the quality of your Chinese is what will count, but for opening doors to opportunities, to have studied at BLCU will have real value. Plus it puts you in Beijing, and that's also seriously valuable experience. You can get out and about and visit as many other places as you want to - and must do - but residence in Beijing has a particular value on your CV.

[shuoshuo]

I'd choose Beijing over Zhejiang anyday because it's a more 'international' city (and many, many other reasons). But I would choose Zhejiang University over BLCU anyday. Since you'll be going to China for language studies and not for employment, I'd choose Zhejiang University. Plus I spent a night at BLCU when I first arrived in China and the accommodation made me want to return to my country.

[ZhangKaiRong]

It's your own choice, really. Everybody has different preferences, so don't expect too objective answers here...

I really hate Northern China. I spent my last year here, and I think it's awfully boring, I don't like the people here, I don't like the weather here. Yes, Beijing has a lot of opportunities, but the whole city is fake as hell, because Beijing still hasn't decided whether to be a modern city or an ancient city. Now Beijing is both, but for me it is a disgusting and fake mix, I don't like to be there at all. I can't live there for another year, to be honest. Apart from these problems, it is full of foreigners, which is a great distraction from learning Chinese, especially if you don't have a solid basis in Chinese. I know that "Oh, of course I will study hard there, I will avoid foreigners" blaa, blaa, most of them end up partying with other foreigners.

I don't really know why people think that the BLCU's language program is better than at any other university in China. In mainland China, they teach you Chinese in the Chinese way of teaching. Which is incompatible with the Western concept of teaching, BLCU is as bad as any other universities... Sitting in the classroom and listening to your teacher doesn't lead to speak Chinese well. Of course, don't skip classes, because there are some contents worth to be learnt during the semester, but don't take studying for the school seriously. Instead of it, go out, make Chinese friends, hang out with them a lot. My classmates who just listened to the class and did the homework in the afternoon are not so good in Chinese. They use bad tones, their expressions are too textbookish, they use a lot of 书面语 when they speak, not authentic at all...

I would definitely go to Hangzhou, because I love 南方. Zhejiang University is a good university, the city is beautiful, their 口音 is fun as well. Of course, the entertainment section is not as top-notch as in Beijing, but consider that Shanghai, Nanjing and Suzhou are in the near, so if you feel bored you just have to ride the 动车 to Shanghai. The weather is better, the Southern Chinese are friendlier than the Northern ones, so getting friends there should be no problem at all...

But again, it's your choice, according to your preferences...

[GotJack]

Justin JJ

Thanks for the input. I really like your idea about developing a mentality of "being uncomfortable speaking english to Chinese people" I agree that it can become an excuse, and limits your learning if you fall back on your native tongue too readily. I'm pleased to hear your getting on well, and only in a years time, it sounds like your Mandarin has improved very well. Other than speaking to natives (which is obviously the best way) do you do much in the way of sitting down and studying academically , or are you all about immersing yourself by talking?

Angelina

I had never though about Shanghai having more expat companies, thus more jobs! This is a really great point to think about. I'm not sure what job I would like to take, tbh im not certain I will take a job in China, but its something I would certainly consider.

Can i ask, having studied at BCLU, how do you find the prestige of the university? are people impressed that you have studied there with it specialising in language? By this I mean, I would consider it impressive for somebody to study Economics at London School of Economics (not only because it is a great uni, but because it specialises in this are)

Jennifer W

Status is definitely something I consider to be important. Although not the primary or sole goal, I am hoping to learn Chinese as a potential benefit to my career options. Additionally i know how much Chinese people hold value in the status of things ( I haven't articulated this very well, but I find them to be more driven by this than English people)

Can I ask what it is you do? It sounds like you have experience being a mover & shaker in the Beijings professional world ?

ShuoShuo

Yeah man you have nailed my problem. Haha i have also heard many horror stories about BLCU scholarship accomodation

ZhangKaiRong

I think you describe my worries about Beijing very well. Thankyou for such a detailed response and I hope you manage to move to the south soon!

Anyhow guys some feedback on my current situation. In the end I went with (what i feel to be my heart over my head) Zhejiang University.

On informing my embassy, they kindly replied to tell me I had no involvement in the decision! and that they were unsure where I could be going, and that it could be yet not even one of my top 3 preferences.

So to summarise the wait goes on to know exactly where I will end up!

Thankyou so much for your thoughts however, although ultimately I probably won't have the power to decide I have learnt a lot from your responses

[JustinJJ]

I think it's really useful to also spent a lot of time studying academically, probably quicker in the long run than just chatting and reinforcing mistakes (since people probably won't correct you). Outside of class I'd split my time between tasks such as listening to the radio, practising words with a flashcard program, learning 10 characters a day, watching the news/movies/锵锵三人行, etc, reading books, writing out the chapter im studying from my textbook, etc. I find that I only really feel that I can use new words properly once I have seen or heard them in a few different contexts.

[Angelina]

I'm glad you went with your heart

The people at your embassy were right, you might end up at a university you didn't even choose. I hadn't put BLCU as any of my three preferred universities when applying for the scholarship two years ago.

Regarding the prestige of BLCU, BLCU is really famous among people who are learning Chinese. BLCU is the biggest and most powerful institution in the world that specializes in teaching Chinese to foreigners. Before I had applied to study in China, I was learning Chinese in my country and we used a textbook called 快乐汉语 issued by BLCU Press.

I'm not sure how much I impressed people by telling them I'm studying Chinese there, but many many people told me "that's a good school" . By the way, where I come from people don't know much about Chinese universities, although I think I impressed some people back home by telling them I was living in Beijing.

This prestige would be more important if you were doing a degree. I know someone who is studying at an undergraduate program there. His mother is a professor of Chinese at a national university abroad and she encouraged him to apply at BLCU. He had previously studied Chinese in a non-degree program at a picturesque city in Southern China.

Just like ZhangKaiRong, I also have a passion for Southern China and non-Mandarin Chinese languages, plus I find Southerners friendlier.

Good luck!

[oneeyedcats]

Hangzhou is alright. On the plus side - stunning scenery, unbelievable Chinese (style) gardens and good tea, but lacking in cultural activities and I'd say that the nightlife leaves a LOT to be desired, as IMHO most Chinese second-tier cities.

The Hangzhou dialect is 100% unintelligible, because well.. it's a completely different language, but I don't think that's a deal breaker, because everyone speaks Mandarin and while the pronunciation is not a standard, textbook Mandarin, it's usually ok. Moreover, that's a personal opinion, but I think it's important to get used to the way Chinese people speak (especially in southern China), because you'd never encounter pure Mandarin anyway (outside of the classroom) and the more experience you have dealing with slightly different pronunciations, the better. That's my two cents, though, some people disagree .

The quality of teaching in Zheda is ok. It varies a lot from teacher to teacher, as you can imagine. The most important teacher by far is the grammar teacher and grammar teachers are usually good. My kouyu teacher this term is unbelievable, unlike last term when she was 3-4 out of ten. The yuede teachers are usually not very good and universally disliked .

For more info: http://www.chinese-f...ang-university/

[GotJack]

Thought I'd update this:

It turned out to not be my choice in the end hehe. Although I believe I prefaced this post by saying I couldn't be too sure.

Anyhow my situation now is, I have been accepted for two scholarships, a one year Mandarin learning scholarship (Through the EU scholarship window) at Central South University, and a 3 year masters International Relations at Zhejiang University (Zhejiang University Scholarship) taught in English.

So now my decision will between these two! (Although again I'm not completely confident that this could all be flipped over at any stage)

I have been provided with the visa letter to for Central South, and having spoken to Zheda they said there admission pack (including visa letter) is on its way via EMS (not sure what this is?)

Anyhow once I have both confirmations and visa letters, then I feel I will be able to make a balanced judgement!

As always if anyone has additional thoughts, they will be appreciated

[Angelina]

Ah, it's also one year vs. three years. I'm going to study at Zheda for two years

Don't forget that Chinese Language is a required course for all foreign students studying towards a post-graduate degree at Zheda.

On the other hand, Hunan girls are really beautiful.

[GotJack]

From what I understand Angelina, International Relations is one of the few course taught in English. And as such shouldn't require learning Chinese.

Although I'm happy to do this (as really my main goal is becoming fluent in Mandarin, not getting a Masters)

Does this fit with your research that it could be only taught in English? (i think there are only around 4 subjects with this status, so is quite rare at Zheda) or perhaps 1 of the 3 years will be spent on Mandarin?

Re the girls , I'll keep that in mind；）

[Angelina]

And as such shouldn't require learning Chinese

It does. Even I'm required to study Chinese and I'm going to study everything else in Chinese without taking a preparatory language course.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/14440-zhejiang-university/page__st__140#comment-311511

Download the guidebook for graduate students, the credit requirements are described in detail and there is an English translation.

It's a little bit complicated to open the document, you'll have to install their reader.

[GotJack]

So my name is on this list http://iczu.zju.edu.cn/english/news/137405170953157433.html

So im feeling ever more confident I do actually have the scholarship. I'm pleased to hear I will have to take Chinese, as my main goal is to pick up the language!

Do you know Angelina, the masters says 2-3 years. Do you think its likely I will do say for example 1 year Mandarin followed by 2 years International Relations?

Its very hard to find information on what the course actually entails, ie the modules we will be taking!

[gato]

It says on this page that the IR program is in the Public Administration college.

http://iczu.zju.edu.cn/english/type4/01031409.html

Here's the list of degree program at the College of Public Administration:

http://www.cpa.zju.edu.cn/eng/list.aspx?cid=18

[GotJack]

Gato , thanks for the 2nd link. Had not seen this site before and look like it well help!

Although on a 2nd glance, I cannot see a Masters in International Relations listed on the 2nd site

[Angelina]

2-3 years means that some programs are 2 years while others are 3. I will study Linguistics and Applied Linguistics in Chinese and my program is 2 years. I'm not on the list because I was nominated by the embassy. I didn't want to apply for the English-taught program, because I've never passed TOEFL/IELTS, so I thought that they might not accept me. There is a preparatory language course (one or two years prior to the actual studies) for people who want to study in Chinese, but haven't passed the HSK yet.

Hope this info helps.

My friend has just finished his Master's Degree studies in Public Policy taught in English at Peking University. He studied for two years, he passed all his exams in the first year and worked on the thesis during the second (no classes). I can imagine that your studies would be similarly structured.

I would not advice you to make your final decision before you actually receive your admission notice from Zheda.

[Sam Fairhall 92]

@GotJack

I am extremely pleased to have found another Brit applying for the CSC on these forums . Thankyou for making yourself known.

I'm about a year behind you it seems. I'm self studying and looking to apply for a CSC for 2014-2015. Alot of the advice on these forums is based around US applications, so I hope I don't pester you too much with questions about UK ones .

Basically, you presumably applied through the Chinese Embassy? I'm from Leeds so i think my nearest is Manchester. Do we apply through the EU scholarships? I read on their website language courses are only for a year, not two - which can be said for some other countries.

Also, I would be willing to pay for my studies if my CSC is not granted. Did you have a back-up plan if it didn't work out? Should i apply to pay for my tuition after i've heard back from CSC or is June too late to apply for a course starting in september?

I'm 21 and finishing my degree this year, i'm very interested in your experiences so hit me up. Any advice is hugely appreciated . Thanks.