How should I deal with a noisy neighbor in Shanghai

[rezaf]

There is a Korean family living upstairs with two little kids. They are very noisy and have made it very difficult for me and my wife to live here. Almost everyday from 6 AM until 10 PM the kids jump and run around for several hours which is practically like earthquake for us. Our Building has several playgrounds for kids and there is a big place in our lobby where the other children play and the parents or grandparents hang out when it's hot outside. We have told them politely about the noise quite a few times during the last few months(both directly and through the building management) but it hasn't really worked so far. The problem is that now we are leaving China for a year and need to rent out the apartment but whenever people come and hear the noise they refuse to rent it. Today the kids were even noisier than usual so my wife went upstairs and talked to their mother however they continued jumping for an hour. This time I went upstairs but the mother refused to open the door so I politely said: 请不要在家里跑步,可以到楼下玩。Apparently at night when I wasn't home the husband and his big friend came to our door and told my wife that we shouldn't go upstairs because it scares the children. When I came back my wife (who is weak after her surgery and needs rest) was terrified.

I don't care about them crying and waking us up in the middle of the night or even if they shout and cry during the day. I wouldn't even mind their jumping if it was for half an hour but since they do it for several hours I think their mother or their maid could take them outside or to the lobby where other children play. Now I don't know what my options are. I know that it's a long shot but is it possible to call the police if they continue or should I also bring my big friends?

Sorry for the rant. They are really getting on my nerves however I appreciate any advice.

[Ruben von Zwack]

I can feel your pain! I had a similar situation for 1.5 years with neighbours above me in Germany. This is not a Chinese or Korean issue, right?

I think by that visit with his buddy, your neighbour crossed a line and that's not a good sign. What I found is that such situations can escalate quickly - my neighbours went even louder, and did insane things like pushing me and calling me names.

I don't know if being loud is an offense in China. If it is, I guess in this situation the person with the better relations to the police, or to the building management, will win.

Could you get the management to have a mediated talk with you and the neighbours? That you cannot get the apartment rented out is a real problem and not just matters of opinion.

Would be giving up the apartment be an option? The situation will probably not better in a year when you return. It's hard to walk away from a situation like that, but your sanity is worth it.

[anonymoose]

Difficult situation. Fortunately my neighbours are fairly quiet, but there's often renovation going on in neighbouring apartments, which often starts at 7am and goes on until late, even at the weekends. Hope you can get it sorted. People like your neighbours really don't deserve to live.

[gato]

I searched on google with "楼上邻居吵怎么办" for you.

The suggestions (with no guarantee of effectiveness) include:

- complain to the owner

- complain to the management office

- complain to the police if the noise is after hours (such as after 11pm)

Since you say that noise is between 6am to 10pm (during waking hours), it is probably not something the police would get involved in. It is more like the renovation noise that people often have suffer with in China.

[skylee]

Could you do something to annoy them in similar ways?

PS - like use something to hit your ceiling or install a really hot light on the ceiling (where the kids play upstairs)? These are not jokes.

The following methods are found by searching 樓上吵鬧 -

我的狀況也是這樣

但是樓版低我不用竹竿

我用3m的靜電拖把

天天打

有控打

大家一起發神經

有改善

隔壁很大声的话我一般敲墙

怎样对付楼上整夜吵闹、制造噪音的阶级敌人！

可以找一只8寸的音响用的扬声器，电子城有卖，不过几十元，再买一20瓦输出交流6伏的变压器，直接将输出端对扬声器通电，这个声音如果经过地板的共振放大，噪音非常惊人，其实是建议不要采用，不然楼上的小姐三天之内一定”起孝“，顶的办法就是扬声器的正面对着天花板，下面照样用竹竿顶住。

这种装置耗电极省，所投入的资金仅仅几十元，但可以收到你去法院打三个月官司都不能收获的效果，又神不知鬼不觉，无法断定噪音源，回家后拆除，出门时顶上，有鬼神不测之功效，但副作用同样巨大，受害者轻则神经衰弱，重则长期习惯性失眠，并伴有严重的脑部回声强迫症，请谨慎采用。

[jasoninchina]

A couple of things.

First, is it the kids running around that is the problem or are the walls/ceiling just too thin? My mom used to live in a place like that. They would be walking around upstairs and it would sound like dinosaurs going at it.

Second, if you've already spoken to them and management, it's likely a hopeless cause. It's a combination of they don't care and what is anyone going to do. All the asking, threats, etc. isn't going to change anything. Hey, maybe you can bribe the owner to kick them out.

Third, either give the apartment up or find a deaf person to rent it.

[roddy]

While it's hardly a police matter, I wouldn't be surprised if they help mediate if they're at a loose end. I'd also suggest trying to set up a meeting with the management office and the family. Maybe offer to buy them a nice big rug. Ask them if they could keep the kids quiet for an hour when people are viewing (ok, the renters won't thank you...), and invite them down to hear how loud it actually is for you. Not sure if there's any use in having a go at the developer for sub-standard noise-proofing (is there an owners' committee? Might be others with similar complaints). Get someone from the office round to hear how bad it is as well.

[Ruben von Zwack]

Could you do something to annoy them in similar ways?

PS - like use something to hit your ceiling or install a really hot light on the ceiling (where the kids play upstairs)? These are not jokes.

But chances are, this could as well escalate the situation! As I said I was in such situation, and what happened whenever I rang their door bell or bumped against the ceiling was that the people upstairs, grown-ups, would jump up and down like mad so it was like an earth quake in my apartment. The one who lives upstairs is always in a stronger position than the people downstairs.

find a deaf person to rent it.

This may sound horrible but what I did was, as soon as I found a new apartment, I sub-let the noisy apartment to Indian migrant workers, until I finally could get out of the contract. I don't intend to sound mean but I had spent one month in India before, so I knew chances were good they would still find it lovely and quiet (and it turned out to be true).

Moving cost me a bomb, I lost almost 2,000 Euros (2500-3000 USD) in rent I had to pay twice and for a company to move my furniture. But when you have a neighbour who doesn't care, and the management doesn't care, and you're not rich enough to hire a hitman (I'm joking but you get my gist), then it's best to count your losses and leave before someone gets hurt.

Just my 2 cents of course.

[rezaf]

Ruben was right. Today they were even louder than before. Given what they did yesterday I think whatever I do it will result in some kind of violence which is not good for either of us as foreigners.

[Brian US]

I'd say go knock on the door again and try and deal with the husband yourself. If you going upstairs actually "scares" the children then the parents might actually try to keep them down. The whole intimidation of the husband bringing a friend can be downplayed with you taking a firm non-aggressive stand in the door way, while portraying your exhaustion (morning/after work).

I'm sorry to hear that your wife felt the wrath, but sadly that could be a combination of them picking on a female or a local (isn't your wife Chinese?). I had a situation in a Harbin hotel where all the workers would crowd in a room next to ours at 7am gossiping with the door open. I was with my girlfriend (westerner) and we couldn't sleep-in for the first few days. The second day my girlfriend went to ask them politely to keep it down and they closed the door, but it was still loud with 7+ aiyi's chatting away. The third day I went and with a little more stern tone along the lines of "every morning I can't sleep" brought a look of terror on their faces and I didn't hear a peep the last few days.

Long story short is that a persistent and stern foreign guy has a few more options, but of course be wary if they start to get more aggressive.

[skylee]

Sorry to say this but could you use your foreign look and your native language to scare the koreans? (Apparently I have never met you or heard you speak your native tongue.) How about knocking at their door with some of your other foreign-looking friends?

[Brian US]

A bully is a bully is a bully. I was in the dorms and the neighbors from Central Asia would get pretty loud. I didn't mind so much since I wasn't staying there long, but my Japanese roommate had complained to the front desk a few times. He finally went over, knocked on their door, and super Japanesey politely asked them to turn down the movie they were watching at 2/3am. At first they pretended not to understand him, but when my roommate asked if they could perhaps wear headphones to watch a movie, it seemed like a great idea to them! Only they said they didn't have headphones and asked if the Japanese guy would buy them some!

My roommate took the note and backed down to the bullies by walking away. I'd like to think I would have handled it better and tried to pull the "I just want to sleep" card. Since these bullies were fine taking advantage of a polite Japanese student, I would hope they could understand a desperate and tired guy when they saw one. A rational person would understand the depths someone will go just to get some sleep.

You could also try talking to the neighbors on their floor about the situation, which could yield more allies going to management. If all else fails, give roller blades to every kid on their floor and above. Also violins! Everyone gets a violin! You get a violin, you get a violin, you all get violins!!!

[Guest realmayo]

If you've run out of all other options:

Bunch of flowers and a bottle of Soju and a note in Korean saying: Sorry for the cultural misunderstanding. We didn't want to scare anyone. But the floors are very thin and your children accidentally make a lot of noise.

How's your Hangul? Maybe you could Ask a Korean http://askakorean.blogspot.co.uk/

[skylee]

Or could you offer him free TCM advice to get him to cooperate?

[rezaf]

I'd go with 以柔克剛 idea maybe then they would give us some mianzi. Who knows? Soju migh work.

[anonymoose]

I think realmayo's option is probably the most likely to work so far.

[HusbandOfWuhan]

My advice would be to hire a nice young Korean lady to mediate/translate for you while you try to give them gifts in order to sit down and talk with them about the situation.

or just move out.

[roddy]

Rezaf, did you manage to resolve this?

[Meng Lelan]

Rezaf, did you manage to resolve this?

Yes, he plans to rent out to me and rmpalpha.

[Manuel]

I can assureyou, from first-hand experience, that any attempts to solve this sort of problem is usually futile. Here in the foreign students dorm where I currently live there are some "uncivilised" students who get drunk, play very loud music and shout, and they also trash up the communal areas. I've tried the diplomatic approach many times and that clearly doesn't work. I've also tried the not so diplomatic approach, with a Mongolian student threatening to beat me afterwards, so that went well too. Try talking some sense into them, they will stop for five minutes and then they relapse. Complaining to the university is useless.

The problem is with the way the minds of these people work. Just like a 1-year-old child wouldn't tell the difference between taking and stealing, these people can't tell the difference between being considerate towards others and being a public nuisance. It doesn't even cross their mind that they might be annoying others. Being antisocial is written in their DNA. They'll never change.

What annoys me most is that they come to a country where most people are usually quiet (at least I've never heard any racket in the university past 22:00 except on graduation day which is understandable), and they come here to throw their weight around and stir the otherwise calm waters.

I effortlessly put these people in the same category as spammers and paedophiles.