Grammar differences between Michel Thomas and Pimsleur

[Blackfist]

I recently completed the Michel Thomas Mandarin Foundation Course. I felt like things were really well explained but I heard that Pimsleur will teach you more vocabulary. So I have started to work on Pimsleur's Mandarin I program. I have run into a question about grammar that hasn't been explained yet.

On the Michel Thomas disks, the grammar for sentence structure seems to go Who, When, What, Object. Following that structure the sentence "Would you like to eat now" would be something like:

nǐ xiànzài xiǎng shí

This is not one of the phrases on the disk, this is my attempt to construct it using the structure provided on the disk. However, that phrase is on the Pimsleur disk in lesson 6 and the wording is

nǐ xiǎng xiànzài shí

So here the When is coming after the verb. Can someone help me wrap my head around this?

Kevin

[Demonic_Duck]

I'd go with 你现在想吃饭吗？ (nǐ xiànzài xiǎng chīfàn ma?)

I believe 你想现在吃饭吗？ (nǐ xiǎng xiànzài chīfàn ma?) is incorrect, or at the very least awkward and seldom used.

[Ruben von Zwack]

I agree that sentence two sounds unusual. Maybe someone whose Mandarin is really good can enlighten us? The common word order that you hear all the time certainly is "nǐ xiànzài xyz..."

(btw isn't it "chī", not "shí"?)

[c_redman]

I found the Pimsleur transcript, and it does indeed say that. If it makes a difference, these are in conversations where it's asked when you would like to eat, or as a contrast with something to be done later. So there is a semantic emphasis on 现在, more than a flat statement about current eating status would be. I don't know if that's enough to change the word order.

你想什么时候吃？ Nǐ xiǎng shénme shíhou chī?

我不想现在吃。过一会儿。Wǒ bù xiǎng xiànzài chī. Guò yīhuǐr.

你想过一会儿喝吗？Nǐ xiǎng guò yīhuǐr hē ma?

不想。我想现在喝。Bù xiǎng. Wǒ xiǎng xiànzài hē.

[SuEn]

I agree with c_redman, these two mean slightly different things,

你现在想吃饭吗？- As in, the person maybe didn't feel like eating before, so you're asking if the want to eat now. Because it's like asking, 你现在想不想吃饭？

你想现在吃饭吗？- This to me feels like asking if you want to eat now as opposed a different time or doing something else first. Because first sentence that popped into my mind when I saw this was something like: 你想现在吃，还是等会？Also here it’s like 你想不想现在吃饭？

It's like in the first one you're asking if right now their answer to "do you want to eat" would be yes or no. And in the second one if their answer to "do you want to eat right now" would be yes or no. If that makes any sense.

I just thought of two more examples that might help illustrate this further,

我现在不想吃饭，一吃饭就恶心。－ I don't want to eat/I don't feel like eating now, I get sick when I eat.

我不想现在吃，想吃的时候再吃。 － I don't want to eat (it) now, I'll eat (it) when I feel like it.

[skylee]

(btw isn't it "chī", not "shí"?)

I suppose the OP means 食 (shí), not 吃 (chī). In Putonghua, 吃 (chī) should be used.

[Lu]

What a fun language Chinese is. Both are correct and they mean slightly different things. (I'm not a native speaker so feel free to correct me.)

nǐ xiànzài xiǎng chī - Do you want to eat now [as opposed to previously when you didn't want to eat]

nǐ xiǎng xiànzài chī - Do you want to eat now [or later/or shall we go the the cinema first]

While strictly speaking both sentences are grammatically correct sentences, they're not really complete, at the very least they need an object (chī fàn rather than just chī) and something that turns it into a question (ma, háishì, xiǎngbùxiǎng). I'd say

你现在想吃东西吗？

你想现在吃饭还是先去看电影？

I'm also a bit worried about a course that would teach you 食 (shí) before 吃 (chī).

[Blackfist]

I read this thread last night and I went back and listened to the course again and I now think that the speakers are saying chī. Sometimes I'm having difficulty telling the difference between sh sounds and ch sounds from the speakers on the disk.

Also, I think the course is building towards adding an object to the sentence. It started with nǐ xiǎng xiànzài chī? But has now moved to nǐ xiǎng xiànzài chī wǔfàn?

[Ruben von Zwack]

There you are! I was wondering how you fared

S/ch/x/etc. is really hard in the beginning. Don't worry, your ears will adjust in time!

[Lu]

I read this thread last night and I went back and listened to the course again and I now think that the speakers are saying chī. Sometimes I'm having difficulty telling the difference between sh sounds and ch sounds from the speakers on the disk.

Also, I think the course is building towards adding an object to the sentence. It started with nǐ xiǎng xiànzài chī? But has now moved to nǐ xiǎng xiànzài chī wǔfàn?

Good to know, I have no need to worry then :-)