New Members bianzhe Posted August 4, 2013 at 07:01 AM New Members Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 at 07:01 AM I recently picked up a copy of 古代漢語 by Wang Li 王力. Armed with Pulleyblank’s Outline of Classical Chinese Grammar and the 古代漢語常用字字典, I’ve worked my way through the first couple of sections. The word qǐng 請 came up quite a few times, and, even though it is quite familiar, a couple of its usages gave me some problems. After doing a little research, it turns out to be quite an interesting little word. Here are a few of my thoughts and findings. 請Usage 1: “to request”, “to ask for” This usage is fairly straightforward. An object follows 請, and it means to request the object. Here are a couple of examples: 及莊公即位,為之請制 When Duke Zhuang assumed his position, [Lady Jiang] requested the city of Zhi for Duan. (Note: 之 refers to Duan, who is Lady Jiang’s son) 請京,使居之,謂之「京城大叔」 [Lady Jiang] requested the city of Jing, and so Duan was sent to take up residence there, where he was named Tai Shu of Jing City. (Note: I take 使居之 to mean “sent [him] to reside there”, with an implicit 之 (referring to Duan) after 使. If that’s correct, the subject is presumably Duke Zhuang rather than Lady Jiang, since I’m guessing she didn’t have the authority to give such an order. However, I’m still not totally sure of the syntax here.) The person being asked may also follow 請, in which case 於 is used. As in, 亟請於武公,公弗許 [Lady Jiang] repeatedly asked Duke Wu [to give the city of Zhi to Duan], but the Duke refused it. (Note: 亟 qì means “repeatedly”) I am not sure whether the 於 is obligatory in this structure. I am also not sure what the structure would be if both the direct and indirect objects of 請 are present. To hazard a guess, it might be: ?姜氏請制於武公 Lady Jiang asked Duke Wu for the city of Zhi. And what if we also want to specify that Lady Jiang is requesting the city of Zhi be given to someone else? This is pure speculation, but I can think of two possibilities: ?姜氏為段請制於武公 Lady Jiang requested the city of Zhi from Duke Wu for Duan. Note that the 為X請Y structure appears also in the very first example above. Another possibility is: ?姜氏請於武公與段制 Lady Jiang asked Duke Wu to give the city of Zhi to Duan. I think yǔ 與 “give” can be used ditransitively in this way. With a quick search on the Chinese Text Project for 與之, I found two examples of similar usages in the 論語 (with translations from Legge): 與之釜 Give her a fu. 與之粟九百 He gave him 900 measures of grain. Does anyone have any other ideas about how this might be expressed in classical? 請 Usage 2: “please”; “please allow me to” 請 can also be used to mean either “please” or “please allow me to”. Here is what Pulleyblank (p. 138) has to say about 請 used as “please”: Qǐng 請 may be inserted parenthetically to turn an imperative sentence into a request. It is placed between the second person subject (if present) and the verb, but its own subject must be understood as first person. He gives an example from Mencius, 王請度之 I beg Your Majesty to measure it. This usage is roughly like 請 in modern Mandarin, only that it is placed between the subject and verb rather than before the subject. Pulleyblank goes on to describe 請 when used as “please allow me to”: Qǐng 請 may also be used when both verbs are in the first person, i.e., when the speaker asks permission to do something. He gives another example from Mencius, 臣請為王言樂 Let me, I pray, speak to Your Majesty about music The first job when working out which sense of 請 is being used is to determine the subject of the sentence. To avoid confusion, it may be easier to temporarily ignore the 請. If the subject is first person, then the 請 is asking for permission to do the verb. If the subject is second person, then the 請 is asking that person to do the verb. Here is a great example from the 左傳 that includes both senses: 欲與大叔,臣請事之;若弗與,則請除之,無生民心 If you wish to give [the state of Zheng] to Tai Shu, please let me serve him. If you do not wish to give it to him, then please remove him, and do not divide the loyalties of the people. In臣請事之, the subject is clearly chén 臣 “I”, so he is asking for permission to perform the verb. In請除之, it is clear from context that the subject is second person (in this case, Duke Zhuang), even though it is not expressed explicitly. Therefore, he is asking Duke Zhuang to perform the verb. This was the usage of 請 that I found most difficult, and which prompted me to do some research about it in the first place. It is interesting to note that James Legge appears to have fallen into this trap and incorrectly translated 請除之 as “allow me to put him out of the way”. He seems to be assuming that the two usages of 請 are symmetrical. His translation for the whole line is: If you do not mean to give it to him, allow me to put him out of the way, so that the minds of the people be not perplexed." (Source: http://www.anselm.ed...to/zuozhuan.htm) As a side note, I’m not sure about him taking 無生民心 to be the desired result (introduced by “so that…”). It does seem natural to read it that way, but the sentence is imperative, and 無 is itself an imperative negative meaning “do not” (Wang Li glosses it as 不要; also, see Pulleyblank p. 107). Therefore, it would seem to make more sense to translate it as “do not perplex the minds of the people”, or something similar. That said, perhaps Legge was just taking a little bit of license to make it flow better. I don't currently have access to any other translations, but it would be interesting to see how others have translated this line. Has anyone had similar issues with 請 or come across any other good examples? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelyus Posted August 6, 2013 at 09:46 AM Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 at 09:46 AM I think the license used in the second clause of Legge's translation is entirely within bounds. I don't know much about the specific nuances of usage, but I'm sure the use of the English present subjunctive in the so-clause carries a lot of jussive force, fully in accord with 無. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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