Should I begin studying alot of vocabulary or continue focusing on sentence structure?

[adamnhms]

Nǐhǎo,

This may be a redundant question, but I was wondering if I should start learning large amounts of vocabulary or just keep on with my Pimsleur audio book which helps with sentence structure plus any additional research online regarding sentence structure. I ask this, because I see many posts on here saying to learn vocabulary, but what is the use of that vocabulary if you cannot apply it in sentences? I want to learn how to use words in the right context first, so I can apply them into sentences and eventually start speaking with fluency. Can anybody share how their experience was while learning Mandarin? Did you try to memorize large amounts of vocabulary or did you just learn grammar (sentence structure) and words came along as you learned? Xièxie nǐ!

[cultureyard]

I personally never managed learning big lists of vocabulary and never found all the flash-card methods particularly useful for long-term learning. I know many students and Chinese teachers that believe in memorizing long lists of vocabulary but I think these methods are slowing dying out and are only useful for passing exams, which is not really the reason I have been studying Chinese. What has worked for me the best is learning complete sentences withing a certain topic, thus I learn both sentence structures and topic-based vocabulary in context. So, if I were you, I'd continue with what works for you best. Eventually, there are many kinds of learners and what's important that you are learning in a way that is the most suitable for you.

Hope it helps.

Ilya.

[adamnhms]

What has worked for me the best is learning complete sentences withing a certain topic, thus I learn both sentence structures and topic-based vocabulary in context.

This is exactly what I've been doing, and it works for using vocab plus learning sentence structure. I agree also that learning large amounts of words isn't relatively useful

[Silent]

The best way to go is very personal as it basicly depends on what works best for you and related, what motivates you. Your goals also strongly influences what you need to learn. What do you want to achieve?

For me learning vocabulary was very motivating when starting out with Chinese. After learning only a handfull of characters you know already a 'fair' amount of a random text. In the beginning the comprehension rate as in the % of characters I knew in a text was skyrocketing, very motivating. Within a year I read my first native adults targeting book (granted I used electronic aids to read and choose a simple book). My progress was very unbalanced (only reading) and probably not that efficient from a didactic point of view but very motivating which kept me from dropping out. The most important thing to make progress, keep going and don't drop out.

Apart from the reading, I believe that vocabulary learning is very important even if it is just passive vocabulary. With only a couple of words of active vocabulary you can ask many very usefull questions. These questions however are useless if you don't understand the answer, you need vocabulary to understand. The more the better.

Clearly, a holy grail does not exist. In the end you need a balance between active and passive vocabulary. There is no point in learning all kinds of academic vocabulary if your active vocabulary is limited to just a couple of basic questions. Nevertheless I'ld say it's better to err towards a large passive vocabular as the passive vocabulair is a first step for activating it later on.

[Ruben von Zwack]

I'd say, it's good to know a decent bit of vocabulary, so when looking up a grammar example, or a word, you don't need to get out your dictionary just to look up the example sentences.

So I would rather practice simple sentences with a variety of vocabulary. (And it might get you further quicker in real life situations, or at least I think that the success of a communication for a beginner rather depends on understanding the core words, than getting every nuance).

Completely relying on a course for the vocabulary can be a bit boring I think, but there are many creative ways one can self-study new vocabulary!

One thing I would recommend for self-study though, if you learn from a TV show, a book, song lyrics or what ever, have some control system. Like when you learn new words, check where they are placed on one of the many "100/250/500/1000 etc. most common words" lists. Reason being, so that you do not by accident learn too many words that are way way down the frequency list, before you close gaps within the most core vocabulary.

[anonymoose]

Personally, I think you should concentrate on grammar first. Grammar is what will tell you how to construct sentences and use your vocabulary. To look at it another way, let's say you learn a new word. Frequently used words you might use several times per day, rarer words you might use once a month or less. But grammar you need to use in every single sentence. Of course, though, grammar and vocabulary are not to the exclusion of one another. You can learn vocabulary whilst you are learning grammar. I suggest you get "Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook" by Yip and Rimmington. The vocabulary builds up as you work through the book, so you will have learnt quite a lot of useful words by the time you get to the end, in addition to the most fundamental grammar. Unfortunately the book doesn't cover ba and bei sentences which are very frequently used, but these are covered in the "Intermediate Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook" which is also worth working through after you've finished the first book.

[Guest realmayo]

People often seem to improve in stages: ability improves, then it levels out, then improves again, then levels out, etc etc. After each step up, there'll be new levels of reading material or TV that you can read or understand. And because you're exposed to new "input" material, you'll be exposed to more vocabulary too, and if you're going to choose to focus on vocab then I think those plateaus are the obvious time to do so, especially if you feel you've got the grammar to understand this new material but are struggling because you lack the vocab.

[adamnhms]

So I would rather practice simple sentences with a variety of vocabulary.

Good thing my audio course does just that! Learning words and checking their popularity is a good idea though.

I suggest you get "Basic Chinese: A Grammar and Workbook" by Yip and Rimmington.

I will definitely look into it.

if you're going to choose to focus on vocab then I think those plateaus are the obvious time to do so, especially if you feel you've got the grammar to understand this new material

That sounds like a good idea. I just hope the vocab I do learn during such time is actual useful vocab. I don't want to learn a word that's used in every 1 in a 10000 sentences if you know what I mean

[Guest realmayo]

I just hope the vocab I do learn during such time is actual useful vocab.

If you're still at fairly early stages then the learning material you use is probably giving you common, useful vocab.

Later on if you're unsure how useful a word is you can note it down and then either check it against a word-frequency list or HSK (exam) list, or just wait until you see it a second or a third time before deciding that you should make sure you learn it.

[tysond]

I largely agree with this article - learning vocab helps you enormously:

http://www.hackingchinese.com/the-importance-of-knowing-many-words/

Although I would stress the importance of making sure you are comfortable with how the most core words combine in very simple ways (e.g. finished eating, put down, pick up, go in, come out). E.g. 去, 来, 到, 好, 了, 上,下, 刚, 更, 比, 跟, 和, etc . These are so common, that it's worth paying them a lot of attention. I found a good way to do both at the same time is study lots of sentences that are relatively simple everyday things that you might say --> I have just finished eating. He's just as tall as I am. I need to comb my hair. Please come in and sit down on the chair beside me. I took a chocolate out of the box. Pay equal attention to the subject/object as the words that are indicating motion and pointing and relationship and comparisons.

It's probably worth reading up on word order and so on - A1 and A2 of http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Main_Page is probably worthwhile. I like to read the rules but study the examples.

You can find lots of example sentences at Zhongwen Red and Zhongwen Green.

[adamnhms]

Although I would stress the importance of making sure you are comfortable with how the most core words combine in very simple ways (e.g. finished eating, put down, pick up, go in, come out). E.g. 去, 来, 到, 好, 了, 上,下, 刚, 更, 比, 跟, 和, etc . These are so common, that it's worth paying them a lot of attention. I found a good way to do both at the same time is study lots of sentences that are relatively simple everyday things that you might say --> I have just finished eating. He's just as tall as I am. I need to comb my hair. Please come in and sit down on the chair beside me. I took a chocolate out of the box. Pay equal attention to the subject/object as the words that are indicating motion and pointing and relationship and comparisons.

It's probably worth reading up on word order and so on - A1 and A2 of http://resources.all...ammar/Main_Page is probably worthwhile. I like to read the rules but study the examples.

You can find lots of example sentences at Zhongwen Red and Zhongwen Green.

Awesome material, thanks!

[Johnny20270]

I am guilty of learning too many words but I find it does help. The Basic Chinese grammer book is brilliant but I found the shear amount of words (~1600) a lot to cope with especially if you are trying to do the examples.

In my view I believe that steady but slow progress is very beneficial. So for example. I use Anki and the HSK lists. I just review them every day on my train ride to/from work. Its the ideal time as doesn't take too long (if you keep the new words to 5~10 a day) and given I have to stand every day, I can hardly start reading a chinese grammer book. Hence using a phone is ideal

for the Yips book, I actually typed the lot out as I went through all chapters nd made the my own anki list. Some are strange and more writen than spoken (or so I'm told)