Curiosity of pinyin writing rules

[Johnny20270]

Hi, I have a question on use of pinyin.

As we know most syllables are a combination of an initial (columns headings of a pinyin table) and a final (row headings of a pinyin table). However, some syllables have no initials (e.g. an). I see that some rules apply to pinyin when the final begins a i, u or ü. These being (not limited to).

if the final begins with an i, it is replaced with a y

if the final begins with an u, it is replaced with a w

if the final begins with an ü, it is replaced with yu

For example, a word like wenyan so made up of written combination of un+ian and because un is an abbreviation of uen, therefore wenyan = uenian. As I understand it the purpose of these changes are to avoid potential confusion, e.g. uenian, so could be interpreted as uen-ian or uen-i-an or u-en-i-an.

All this makes sense, however, when potentially other (2 or 3) syllable pinyin exists and has the potential for confusion, a ‘ is used to separate the pinyin, e.g. Xi’an to distinguish it from xian

So my question is this: why not write wenyan as simply uen’ian

[skylee]

Because the authority that made the rules said so? And when you have w and y, the need for the apostrophe is much lessened, making things easier to read and type?

[Johnny20270]

the need for the apostrophe is much lessened

ahh i see!

Thanks skylee

[Ruben von Zwack]

I have heard people say vàng instead of wàng 忘 and it seems acceptable. I guess that could be one of the reasons for it being written w and not u.

[Glenn]

Same with vei4shen2me for wei4shen2me for me, although I think it may actually be a voiced bilabial fricative instead of a voice labio-dental fricative.

[Johnny20270]

voiced bilabial fricative instead of a voice labio-dental fricative.

Ok I have no clue what that means! Will google it

[mika]

because pinyin was made based on latin. if you look up the rules of latin you will see they are the same. we tend to start a syllable with vowels or consonant. and i, u, ü are semivowels.

[liuzhou]

because pinyin was made based on latin.

That is the funniest thing I've read all week.

[renzhe]

because pinyin was made based on latin.

Nah, it is because /w/ and /j/ are glides and tend to drift into consonant territory in some circumstances in all languages, simply by the way they are vocalised.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glide_%28linguistics%29

Latin just had the same issue with writing it down as Chinese and most other languages, that's all.

[mika]

That is the funniest thing I've read all week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanization_of_Chinese

for your reference. you can look up the creation of pinyin.

[mika]

and sorry for the typing mistake. I mean y, w are semivowels. they function as consonant so to seperate syllables but also keep the sound of vowels.

[liuzhou]

Quote

That is the funniest thing I've read all week.

http://en.wikipedia....tion_of_Chinese

for your reference. you can look up the creation of pinyin.

If you read that again, (not that Wikipedia is reliable source for anything), you will see it only refers to the use of the "Latin Alphabet" in Pinyin. It does not discuss Pinyin following any rules of Latin.

Given that scores of languages around the world use variations on the Latin alphabet, there is nothing surprising about it, really.

[Johnny20270]

not that Wikipedia is reliable source for anything

Actually its one of the best sources for many fields in my view. I regularly check it for computer science, finance, mathematics (my areas) and it beats a lot of dedicated websites. Thanks to all the helpful geeks and nerds

[imron]

best != reliable

It contains a lot of useful information, but at the same time it's almost entirely editable (with the exception of certain locked topics) so at any given time what you are reading may be correct or it may be the ramblings of whoever decided to just make an edit.

Wikipedia itself acknowledges that it is not a reliable primary source, which is why it asks people to provide citations to reliable sources or risk having edits removed.

[renzhe]

Wikipedia (and related sites like wiktionary, etc.) is as reliable as it gets on the internet. There is nothing "more reliable" on the net per se.

That said, everything on the Internet must be approached with a good dose of skepticism, including wikipedia. If you do that, and check the primary sources linked in the article, you'll find it a fantastic resource for getting the gist of things