Chinaimmersion.org in tianjin

[jscott4321]

I'll be graduating this fall, and I've been looking into this program called China immersion (link below). It's based in Tianjin, and offers a teach and study program. Essentially you take Chinese courses in the morning, then teach in the afternoon. Housing and the Mandarin lessons are subsidized by the teaching. There is also a 2000 living stipend provided, plus activities. I've found it hard to find any reviews on the program. I was wondering if anyone has any knowledge or experience with the program?

http://www.chinaimmersion.org/teaching/china/

Thank you.

[zhouhaochen]

no experience, but I wonder how someone can be immersed into a Mandarin language environment while being expected to speak English to students half the day.

[jalsamarrai]

Hey jscott4321,

I tried this program a few years back and had an really enjoyable time doing the Teach and Study program. Personally, I think you need to first decide what your goals are in China...are you trying to learn Chinese as fast as possible but strapped for cash? Are you just going to China for an experience outside of your own country? For me, I fit into both. The program provides a stipend, which allowed me to have some extra cash and there are also fun little trips we went on to different parts of the city and surrounding areas. As for things such as safety, good food to eat, making friends and having good Chinese tutors, those were all excellent and I have no complaints. However, if you are looking to be all gung-ho and learn Chinese as fast as possible it will require self-study and review after learning. Sure, you'll be teaching English, but you'll have Chinese tutors, people that are always willing to speak Chinese with you AND you'll be surrounded by Chinese people (the English level of average local Tianjin folk is not good at all/non-existent, haha) so all the resources are there, you just need to take advantage of them. If you have any more questions feel free to contact me and I'd be happy to answer them. Check out the Testimonials (http://www.chinaimmersion.org/testimonials/) page on their website too to see what other people said about it. Two of my friends are on there too, Joe and Ryan, so you can read about their experiences. Definitely recommend it =) G'luck man!

Justin A.

[WestTexas]

I don't see how that's better than just getting a normal teaching job with 15-20 hours a week, actually getting paid, and studying in your free time. As a whole, I'd say it looks sketchy.

There is a lot of gimmicky copy on their website. Like,

The current population of China is over 1.3 billion! Why wouldn’t you want to speak with 20% of the world’s population?

Not everyone in China speaks Chinese, and many of them who are speaking 'Chinese' can't understand each other. You, as a foreigner, won't be able to either.

English teachers are considered highly respected in China

Right...

Immersion is important not only for your English language students, but for study of Chinese as well.

Nothing mutually exclusive there. Definitely a statement from a company that understands 'immersion'.

Another weird bit is that their website emphasizes that you are getting immersed in 'Chinese culture'... how? By being an English-teaching mule?

The website seems overly sales-oriented. Getting foreign teachers for below-market rates is the aim of many such teach/work programs. They are gimmicks designed merely to put money in the program director's pocket. Don't be surprised if the Chinese lessons are mediocre and the accommodations are shabby. Don't be surprised, either, if you find your weekends evaporating due to suddenly scheduled classes.

[annabanana]

Hi jscott4321,

I participated internship program through China Immersion last summer. I was working as a sales and marketing assistant of the English school there (I didn't teach English).

The head of China Immersion (American) have been living in China for more than 6 years. He is fluent in Chinese, loves what he is doing, and knows Chinese culture a lot. You can always talk to him any concern you may have before leaving and while in China. So you don't need to worry about not knowing how to speak Chinese or Chinese culture before departure (it would be nice to know a bit though).

In terms of teaching English and learning Chinese at the same time, here is how it worked. So most of the English classes started from late afternoon or evening on weekdays, so teachers took Chinese lessons in the morning for approximately two hours, Monday through Friday. We had a Chinese teacher/tutor and the class was small (students were those foreigners who taught English at China Immersion) so it felt like we were getting private Chinese lessons. Chinese lessons were adjusted to our level so it could be beginner, intermediate or advanced.

In terms of housing and food, I stayed with people who work for China Immersion. Lunch and dinner was provided and they were home-made meals which was one of the best parts of the program.. I think it was personally.

Things might change from last year so I recommend to email them if you have any question.

It will definitely be a life-changing experience for you since I am assuming you have never been to China or exposed yourself into Chinese culture.

If you are adventurous, and love being around with little kids, this program is for you.

I hope this was helpful and good luck on your last semester.

Anna

[JustinJJ]

You can do a few sums using conservative figures and see that it a poor deal.

Assuming you could teach 20 hours a week at only 100rmb an hour.

Salary ~ 8000

Less rent 3000

Less classes 480 (assuming 40rmb a lesson, only 12 lessons a month in this program at 50 mins each!)

Leaves you with over 4,500, i.e. you should be getting more than double your 'stipend'.

Other things I see on the website that I find suspicious:

The word immersion used all over the place. It is not immersion when its a) 20 hours of teaching and b) only 10 hours of class a month! (you could perhaps get more immersion than this 20 minutes a day if you lived with Chinese people in your home country）

If you click on FAQ you can read this about the accommodation: "Housing is up to western standards however may seem basic when compared to living in your home country.". This sounds like marketing talk for 'cheap so we can make more profit'.

If you click on prices & dates you can see they have an internship section where you PAY at least 5500rmb a month for the benefit of working. (also a $315 'commit fee').

Their accommodation service charges 11,900rmb a month for a serviced apartment！ （note that the difference between their standard and serviced apartment may be someone coming to clean your room twice a week which would cost the company maybe 20 rmb). Someone participating in their internship program may Pay 17,000+rmb a month if you add in the cost you pay to work and rent.

Under 'why don't I receive a salary' they mention "We aim to cultivate fluent speakers of Mandarin Chinese with an understanding of Chinese culture and practical work experience. ".

I'm a bit skeptical that you can develop fluency in this kind of environment. Perhaps I'm just slower than others but when I came to China I was putting in 10 hours a day to Chinese study (not their 10 per month), including some classes but also much self-study, etc. I took the route of complete immersion i.e. not using english for weeks at a time, and I found that useful for me to build a good base. It really depends on your goals, but be careful of getting a poor deal

Justin F.

[jscott4321]

Hey Justin,

Thank you for responding. I have a couple of questions for the program. How long did you spend with the program? How many people were enrolled in the program? How much time per week did you dedicate to teaching english? What was your starting level, and what level did you leave with? Did you take the hsk before leaving? Did they help you find a job after, and if so where? How was it living on the stipend? Where did you go for the excursions? Sorry for all the questions at once.

Thank you,

Jacob S.

[roddy]

Chinaimmersion, you're presumably pulling some strings behind the scenes here, as a new member posting about a new service, quickly followed by two new members praising it, is very much at the end of the probability curve. How about you sign up and say hello yourselves?

[jscott4321]

I became a member to specifically ask if anyone in the community knew anything about the program, as i could not locate it elsewhere outside of the programs own website. I also joined to look at other peoples experience with Chinese scholarship council. Just trying to explore my options for graduation. I'am not attempting to be a marketing tool, however I can only answer for myself.

[chai2zhe2]

My name is Chad and I am one of the co founders of China Immersion. First off, it’s great to see China Immersion being discussed on this forum – a place that I have often come to seek information regarding language study and life in China. Despite most of the comments being negative about our Teach and Study program I welcome open discussion so I can clear up these assumptions and misunderstandings.

@zhouhaochen

no experience, but I wonder how someone can be immersed into a Mandarin language environment while being expected to speak English to students half the day.

Participants teach 20 hours a week and have two days of rest. On average its four hours of class a day. Our participants teach at smaller scale schools where there are many opportunities to speak with parents of students, employees and principals in Chinese. Chinese class consists of 8 private hours per week. For those who want only language classes they can check out our Mandarin Immersion. It’s a study-only program where you can take 15-30 hours per week of class in small group or one on one setting.

@WestTexas

I don't see how that's better than just getting a normal teaching job with 15-20 hours a week, actually getting paid, and studying in your free time. As a whole, I'd say it looks sketchy

Great idea! If you want to find your own job, accommodation, and Chinese teacher then you probably won’t consider our program. I’m assuming this is what you have been doing with your four years teaching in China? Did it work out well for you? According to your avatar I guess four years of this method can get a Chinese level of “just so so?” Did you have anyone design a study plan for you? Monitor your Chinese progress? Take you out and introduce you to friends and Chinese culture? Teach you how to make dumplings? Provide teaching support and actual living assistance? People come to China with different goals and we recognize that. Our Teach and Study program is designed to support you while receiving quality language instruction for an extended length of time. Many people can’t afford to attend a language school in China for six months to twelve months while being sponsored for a visa. China Immersion’s Teach and Study program is an alternative solution.

Working less than 20 hours is definitely possible. The options that come to my mind are 1) You are already in China on a student visa working part time 2) You are a university teacher who does have less than 20 hours of class a week, but you still need to calculate the time for correcting homework, designing lesson plans and grading tests. If you do find another job with less than 20 hours a week I’m guaranteeing they aren’t willing to sponsor your visa while you stay in China.

There is a lot of gimmicky copy on their website. Like,

Quote

The current population of China is over 1.3 billion! Why wouldn’t you want to speak with 20% of the world’s population?

Not everyone in China speaks Chinese, and many of them who are speaking 'Chinese' can't understand each other. You, as a foreigner, won't be able to either.

You are correct. Its only 14.6 percent of the world population according to 2010 figures from Nationalencyklopedin and 12.44 percent according to the CIA factbook (http://en.wikipedia....native_speakers) I would however argue that out of all the cities I’ve traveled in China (North, South, East, West) there was hardly an instance where the Chinese person didn’t understand what I was saying in Chinese. When they speak to me in their local dialect, yes I didn’t understand. Our program participants are living in northern China where standard Mandarin is the dominant language spoken.

Quote

English teachers are considered highly respected in China

Right...

I’m assuming you are being sarcastic. For a country founded on Confucius principles I find it hard to believe teachers aren’t respected in China. Having personally taught in China there are numerous times when students or parents of students would thank me, bring me gifts, and invite me to their homes for meals with their extended family.

Quote

Immersion is important not only for your English language students, but for study of Chinese as well.

Nothing mutually exclusive there. Definitely a statement from a company that understands 'immersion'.

Thanks for your opinion. I’m sure you agree whether teaching English or learning Chinese the environment surrounding the student is critical. Why do people learn Chinese faster in China? Possibly because they have a better language environment. If you provide a great environment for your English students they will learn faster too. I don’t really understand your point here…

Another weird bit is that their website emphasizes that you are getting immersed in 'Chinese culture'... how? By being an English-teaching mule?

This comment really worries me. We must have done a really bad job writing the content for our program if you get the idea our participants are “English-teaching mules.” We provide a service that you are skeptical about. OK, fine. I welcome you to ask questions, ask for references, compare us to other programs, but please don’t baselessly slander our company.

The website seems overly sales-oriented. Getting foreign teachers for below-market rates is the aim of many such teach/work programs. They are gimmicks designed merely to put money in the program director's pocket. Don't be surprised if the Chinese lessons are mediocre and the accommodations are shabby. Don't be surprised, either, if you you’re your weekends evaporating due to suddenly scheduled classes.

According to your opinion all teach/work programs in China are horrible. This comment actually excites me! This is all the greater opportunity for China Immersion to provide an outstanding service and surpass our competitors.

How should I respond to the last part of this comment? -- Don’t be surprised if the teachers ARE outstanding? The accommodation IS comfortable? And, your two days off a week ARE enjoyable?

Our Chinese teachers have studied teaching Chinese as a second language, we have monthly reviews, assign homework and arrange culture activities.

Participants teach twenty hours a week and have two days off. We cooperate with registered schools who agree to this. Don’t make assumptions on your shady experiences.

Accommodations are up to western standards - meaning no hole in the ground toilet, a proper bed and mattress, hardwood or linoleum floors, AC, shower, microwave, refrigerator, washing machine, etc. China Immersion cares about our participants. We want participants to perform well teaching and effectively study Chinese. Why would we put you in poor living conditions? This is absurd.

@JustinJJ

You can do a few sums using conservative figures and see that it a poor deal.

Assuming you could teach 20 hours a week at only 100rmb an hour.

Salary ~ 8000

Less rent 3000

Less classes 480 (assuming 40rmb a lesson, only 12 lessons a month in this program at 50 mins each!)

Leaves you with over 4,500, i.e. you should be getting more than double your 'stipend'.

First, there is an error in your calculations. We provide 32 hours of lessons per month with our Teach and Study program, not 12 lessons of 50 minutes in length.

Second, I don’t know where you can find private Chinese classes for 40RMB an hour. Yeah, you can find a private tutor who wants to make some side money, but are they affiliated with a school and are they going to sponsor your visa in China?

Finally, let me ask you JustinJJ, have you ever operated a business in China? Do you know the costs involved cooperating with local bureaus and officials? Hiring teachers and coordinators? And, do you think any business can operate without a profit for its investors? Welcome to the world of business, where you exchange money for services, services for services, and services for money. We aren't a charity, we are a for-profit organization with a goal to provide quality educational programs in China.

The word immersion used all over the place. It is not immersion when its a) 20 hours of teaching and b) only 10 hours of class a month! (you could perhaps get more immersion than this 20 minutes a day if you lived with Chinese people in your home country）

Again your numbers are wrong. Our participants study 8 hours a week and teach 20 hours. We also provide activities and events such as meet and greet at local universities, dumpling parties, excursions to local attractions, etc. You will be treated out by our employees, language instructors, and introduced to friends.

I hope your last sentence was a joke as it’s quite ignorant.

If you click on FAQ you can read this about the accommodation: "Housing is up to western standards however may seem basic when compared to living in your home country.". This sounds like marketing talk for 'cheap so we can make more profit'.

I already answered above so I will copy and paste… Accommodations are up to western standards - meaning no hole in the ground toilet, a proper bed and mattress, hardwood or linoleum floors, AC, shower, microwave, refrigerator, washing machine, etc. China Immersion cares about our participants. We want participants to perform well teaching and effectively study Chinese. Why would we put you in poor living conditions? This is absurd.

If you click on prices & dates you can see they have an internship section where you PAY at least 5500rmb a month for the benefit of working. (also a $315 'commit fee').

This is our China Internship program. You have been confusing the details of this program with the details of the Teach and Study program. Please do a search on the internet for “internships in China” and tell me any program that is free? Or better yet, which program will pay you to intern in China? The reason being is that these multinational companies are spending time to train, educate and assist an intern who will go back to their home country after a short period of time. It’s not exactly a profitable investment monetary wise for the host company. On top, we coordinate with the companies while adding our other language, culture and living services on top. Please compare us to other internship programs and you will find our price is quite low.

Their accommodation service charges 11,900rmb a month for a serviced apartment！ （note that the difference between their standard and serviced apartment may be someone coming to clean your room twice a week which would cost the company maybe 20 rmb). Someone participating in their internship program may Pay 17,000+rmb a month if you add in the cost you pay to work and rent.

This is an option for China Internship and Mandarin Immersion participants. We also offer community apartments, dormitories and hotel options from 1800-4500RMB/mo. The price of 11,900RMB is set by the housing company, not us. We don’t make money off of accommodation. Feel free to search for serviced apartments in China and you will be surprised this is on the low end! It’s a private building with 24/7 security, maid services, utilities included, meal plans,etc. To most people it is expensive and not necessary. But we want our participants to have as many options available. We aren’t forcing anyone to choose this option and almost always recommend community apartments as the best accommodation option.

Under 'why don't I receive a salary' they mention "We aim to cultivate fluent speakers of Mandarin Chinese with an understanding of Chinese culture and practical work experience.

This is just as bad as a sensational news reporter summarizing a news event. Here is the whole segment from our FAQ section:

China Immersion is designed to allow participants to study Chinese, learn about the culture while they teach in China. We aim to cultivate fluent speakers of Mandarin Chinese with an understanding of Chinese culture and practical work experience. The nature of the program is that of a culture exchange program and is not a means to earn a salary. If you are already an experienced, certified English teacher and would like a job as a full time English teacher please contact us, we can provide a list of suggested employers.

I'm a bit skeptical that you can develop fluency in this kind of environment. Perhaps I'm just slower than others but when I came to China I was putting in 10 hours a day to Chinese study (not their 10 per month), including some classes but also much self-study, etc. I took the route of complete immersion i.e. not using english for weeks at a time, and I found that useful for me to build a good base. It really depends on your goals, but be careful of getting a poor deal

Again, you are mixing the details of our program together. Teach and Study is 32 hours a month of private language instruction, China Internship 12 hours a week of private language instruction, and Mandarin Immersion is 60-120 hours a month of private or small group language instruction.

The last part of your paragraph made me smile. It’s actually a nice tidbit of information about your past study experience. I’m glad you had the convenience of supporting yourself while you were completely immersed in a non-English environment. Not everybody has that convenience. We actually offer a similar experience through our study-only Mandarin Immersion program.

@roddy

Chinaimmersion, you're presumably pulling some strings behind the scenes here, as a new member posting about a new service, quickly followed by two new members praising it, is very much at the end of the probability curve. How about you sign up and say hello yourselves?

I have enjoyed this forum for many years and although haven’t contributed, I appreciate the knowledge this community provides. Taking a look at the situation this post is reminiscent of these two posts I read a few years back:

http://www.chinese-f...zhuang-dialect/

http://www.chinese-f...unming-a-query/

This post is not a marketing gimmick and you can check the IPs of the users to prove they are different people. After noticing website traffic originating from this forum I notified past and present participants and asked to share some genuine comments about our programs. This is as far as I went to “pull the strings.” I don’t intend to misuse the forum to talk about the details of China Immersion’s programs, but I am compelled to clear up assumptions and misunderstandings, especially when done by strangers in a negative connotation.

To sum it up, China Immersion is dedicated to providing quality programs for teach, study and intern experiences in China. Feel free to browse our website for more details, compare us to competitors and send us inquiries. If you have any further questions you can contact me directly at chad@chinaimmersion.org Thanks to all who have read through my long response! Cheers!

[roddy]

After noticing website traffic originating from this forum I notified past and present participants and asked to share some genuine comments about our programs. This is as far as I went to “pull the strings.”

That's fine, but it's worth making clear that that's what you're doing - we get plenty of schools who ask the questions then provide the answers.

[imron]

Did it work out well for you? According to your avatar I guess four years of this method can get a Chinese level of “just so so?”

Just for reference, I wouldn't take self descriptions of Chinese levels too seriously. People might be more modest than they let on, or they might be using certain phrases for humourous effect - anyone who's lived in China for any length of time can probably spot that in "just so so".

For a more accurate account of WestTexas' actual Chinese level, you can check out this post here.

[JustinJJ]

First, there is an error in your calculations. We provide 32 hours of lessons per month with our Teach and Study program, not 12 lessons of 50 minutes in length.

Apologies I stand corrected, the 10 hours a month was for your employee-pays internship program.

Second, I don’t know where you can find private Chinese classes for 40RMB an hour. Yeah, you can find a private tutor who wants to make some side money, but are they affiliated with a school and are they going to sponsor your visa in China?

Found a school offering lessons for 38 rmb for a 1.5 hour class (25.3/hr). http://www.gvschines...bout/rule.html.

Finally, let me ask you JustinJJ, have you ever operated a business in China? Do you know the costs involved cooperating with local bureaus and officials? Hiring teachers and coordinators? And, do you think any business can operate without a profit for its investors? Welcome to the world of business, where you exchange money for services, services for services, and services for money. We aren't a charity, we are a for-profit organization with a goal to provide quality educational programs in China.

Every business has costs, including other schools. That's your concern not your employee's. Bottom line, it looks very much like a teaching job paying 2k a month. Enough said.

This is our China Internship program. You have been confusing the details of this program with the details of the Teach and Study program. Please do a search on the internet for “internships in China” and tell me any program that is free? Or better yet, which program will pay you to intern in China? The reason being is that these multinational companies are spending time to train, educate and assist an intern who will go back to their home country after a short period of time. It’s not exactly a profitable investment monetary wise for the host company. On top, we coordinate with the companies while adding our other language, culture and living services on top. Please compare us to other internship programs and you will find our price is quite low.

I was just illustrating the cost of your services. Sure, people do unpaid work-experience to gain the experience, but actually going to the extent of paying for this is a bit rich don't you think? It would not surprise me if doing an internet search would lead to other companies also trying to make a cut (via charging the worker) from arranging internships.

The price of 11,900RMB is set by the housing company, not us. We don’t make money off of accommodation.Feel free to search for serviced apartments in China and you will be surprised this is on the low end!

I'll take your word on that, Tianjin must be more expensive than Beijing. Again I would not be surprised if an internet search lead me to find companies are trying to over-charge from arranging accommodation for foreigners who aren't aware how much they should be paying.

This is just as bad as a sensational news reporter summarizing a news event. Here is the whole segment from our FAQ section:

China Immersion is designed to allow participants to study Chinese, learn about the culture while they teach in China. We aim to cultivate fluent speakers of Mandarin Chinese with an understanding of Chinese culture and practical work experience. The nature of the program is that of a culture exchange program and is not a means to earn a salary. If you are already an experienced, certified English teacher and would like a job as a full time English teacher please contact us, we can provide a list of suggested employers.

I just find it hard to work out how working 20 hours a week can not be seen as 'a means to earn a salary'. Sounds very much like a job if you ask me.

[Guest realmayo]

For a more accurate account of WestTexas' actual Chinese level, you can check out this post here.

That was two years ago. Is it possible it's even better now?

[imron]

That's highly likely, in fact, it's almost the same amount time as he spent to get to that level, so I think it's safe to assume he's almost twice as good now. WestTexas, the only solution is for you to provide an update even better than that post - 13 upvotes is quite the score to beat

[jalsamarrai]

Hey Jacob,

No problem asking all the questions, happy to answer man. I spent a year with the program when it was in it's first year of operation and of course things weren't perfect, but overall I had a great time. Having been in China back in 2008 for 5 months, I was familiar with what the others have said about being suddenly scheduled extra hours teaching. However, I was happy that this program never made me work more than 20 hours a week, not once. When I participated in CI there were 5 people enrolled in the program and thankfully they weren't like some of the weirdos Asia seems to attract sometimes (haha). As for my Chinese level...I would say I entered with a pretty basic Chinese level and left with an upper-intermediate one but I never took the HSK simply because I think tests are a ridiculous way of truly testing one's knowledge. Sometimes I can be lazy with my studies so it was good to have 8 hours a week of structured Chinese classes to kind of force me to learn. At home I would do self-study by watching cartoons (Doraemon is awesome, 哆啦A梦 in Chinese), reading simple passages, and listening to some Chinese music.

As for some complaints, I would say there were some. Where I lived there was a big supermarket across the street called 人人乐 and I often went there to buy groceries. I was warned by people in the program and by my Chinese friends that the supermarket is known for having a good amount of talented thieves lol...so long story short my phone and my bike were stolen, which was a total bummer but something I just considered a cultural learning experience. Complaints in relation to the program weren't many, but there were a few. The English school I was at has their own way of teaching the students, I guess to make it easier for the teachers in terms of preparation/teachers that don't have any teaching experience. For me, I wanted more freedom in the way I taught by bringing in my own ideas/games/methods etc. The first couple weeks it was a bit of a drag, but I talked to the coordinators and they ended up giving me that freedom to bring my own creativity in, which made teaching really enjoyable. Also, when I got there they had basic teaching materials, like a clean room, tables, projectors, etc. After they added a touch-screen interface incorporated into the classes it became much easier to teach and actually more interesting. The school I was at had a Wii too that you can use to teach and play games haha pretty sweet.

To answer your stipend question, it was enough for basic living expenses. I think bringing extra money is a must if you want to travel outside of the city and to other parts of China. The food in China is pretty darn cheap and I'm not a big guy that eats a lot so that wasn't a big cost for me. Excursions included places like Ancient Culture Street, temples, and different places around the city. Job wise, I didn't find anything afterwards mainly because I didn't want to start working. I ended up getting a scholarship to study Chinese in southern China in a city called Xiamen. After being in Xiamen for one year studying Chinese, I got another two year scholarship to do a master's degree. It all worked out well.

One thing I really l enjoyed was how in touch they were with us. It seems like almost every week we did some sort of activity or went to some sort of club (educational, not the drinking-kind lol). For me, I felt it had more structure and seemed more reliable than the other standard English schools and Chinese schools here. This program was started by an American so things were run in exactly the kind of way I expected it to be coming from the States. Any more questions?

Justin A.

[WestTexas]

People can make their own judgments on using this company or not. I feel that Justin and I have made our points, and the boss at the company has made his own. However,

please don’t baselessly slander our company.

I wasn't baselessly slandering your company. Teaching for 2k a month is being an English teaching mule. Baseless slander would be if you paid 10k. Of course, the phrase baseless slander itself is redundant, but I won't harp on that since it's obvious English isn't your first language.

Also,

According to your opinion all teach/work programs in China are horrible.

Really? Because what I said was:

Getting foreign teachers for below-market rates is the aim of many such teach/work programs.

[jalsamarrai]

WestTexas' audacious remark that Chad's native language isn't English is entirely untrue. I think what should be noted as most important here is that Chad is from the U.S., he is not some Chinese guy who started a business in China to exploit foreigners. Furthermore, his Chinese is excellent...to the point where my own girlfriend from Sichuan (standard Mandarin speaker) is unable to distinguish his oral Chinese from that of a native Chinese speaker on levels of both pronunciation and grammar. If you want to be introduced to effective methods of studying Chinese, making Chinese friends and living in China then he is the kind of guy you ask.

Jacob, if you have more questions or want others to share their experiences at CI just ask Chad and I'm sure he'd be happy to provide their contact info. More than anything, I welcome you to China and hope that you have as great an experience here as I have! So many great people, places...food and cute girls if you like Chinese women haha!

[chai2zhe2]

@JustinJJ

Quote

Second, I don’t know where you can find private Chinese classes for 40RMB an hour. Yeah, you can find a private tutor who wants to make some side money, but are they affiliated with a school and are they going to sponsor your visa in China?

Found a school offering lessons for 38 rmb for a 1.5 hour class (25.3/hr). http://www.gvschines...bout/rule.html.

This is great! I recommend everyone compare other programs to those of China Immersion. However, I must point out that the price you gave of 25.3RMB/hr is for their group class which can have up to 20 students in one class. China Immersion's Teach and Study program has private (1v1) instruction NOT group classes.

Quote

This is just as bad as a sensational news reporter summarizing a news event. Here is the whole segment from our FAQ section:

China Immersion is designed to allow participants to study Chinese, learn about the culture while they teach in China. We aim to cultivate fluent speakers of Mandarin Chinese with an understanding of Chinese culture and practical work experience. The nature of the program is that of a culture exchange program and is not a means to earn a salary. If you are already an experienced, certified English teacher and would like a job as a full time English teacher please contact us, we can provide a list of suggested employers.

I just find it hard to work out how working 20 hours a week can not be seen as 'a means to earn a salary'. Sounds very much like a job if you ask me.

If you are ONLY interested in teaching English then this program probably isn't for you. China Immersion provides the resources needed to support yourself to become fluent in Mandarin Chinese and understand the culture. A regular teaching job won't include 32 monthly hours of private language classes, structured curriculum and testing, culture excursions, language activities, and access to our job network. You can compare our Teach and Study program to a traditional English teaching job all you want, but in the end you are just missing the point of our program.

@WestTexas

Quote

please don’t baselessly slander our company.

I wasn't baselessly slandering your company. Teaching for 2k a month is being an English teaching mule. Baseless slander would be if you paid 10k. Of course, the phrase baseless slander itself is redundant, but I won't harp on that since it's obvious English isn't your first language.

Again, I think you and JustinJJ are missing the point of the program. The Teach and Study program is a way for participants to subsidize their tuition for private 1v1 Chinese classes while enjoying our other culture and living services. The included private classes are similar to those offered in our 1v1 Mandarin Immersion program. Most people can't afford to take our private classes for 12 months in length. The Teach and Study program offers a solution to those who would want to experience a long term language and culture program.

When you resort to making fun of my vocabulary error I think you are way beyond making your point.

[JustinJJ]

My final two cents on this matter. Since you believe I am missing the point, I will try to directly address the point.

Again, I think you and JustinJJ are missing the point of the program. The Teach and Study program is a way for participants to subsidize their tuition for private 1v1 Chinese classes while enjoying our other culture and living services.

You can calculate the cost of the additional services, assuming the teaching component is 'paid' at market rates:

Teaching -classes -accommodation -extra services = 2000rmb

12000 -(32*100) -3000 -extra services = 2000

5800 -Extra services = 2000

Extra services = 3800 per month

= USD 7,600 a year

Sources: Teaching: http://beijing.usemb...acs_teach.html Chinese one-on-one lessons http://www.thebeijin...inese-teaching; accommodation: http://www.thebeijin...eeking-roommate

Extra services are 'structured curriculum and testing, culture excursions, language activities, and access to our job network. '.

Not easy to put a dollar value on these, but I suspect many of these you could do/experience for free, so I someone deciding on the program would need to consider the USD 7,600 cost of these services in that context.

If you are ONLY interested in teaching English then this program probably isn't for you. China Immersion provides the resources needed to support yourself to become fluent in Mandarin Chinese and understand the culture

It seems that if someone organised a job and classes themself they should have a fair bit left over (comparatively speaking) to experience culture, etc. (assuming the cultural experience actually needs to be paid for). Note that the teach and study program does not include entertainment and travel costs so these costs would need to be spent from the stipend.

If your typical clients tend to put importance on having their study cost subsidized, then perhaps USD 7.6K for the extra services provided would be a lot for them. (The USD 315 commitment fee bumps the overall cost of additional services to around USD 8K)