Speed Up Your Chinese Grammar iBook

[pprendeville]

Am considering getting this book by for my iPad. Full title is Speed up Your Chinese: Strategies to Avoid Common Errors by Shin Yong Robson. Now the thing I happen to like about this book is it has examples of typical mistakes which foreigners make (or that's what the claim is as I only have a sample of the iBook). Also, there's an acompanying website that allows one to practice grammar structures (http://www.routledge.com/cw/robson). Please note I'm not affiliated with the writer or company.

I'm studying in Minzu and would like to get something to compliment the books I'm using. Has anyone used it before or would they be able to recommend something else? It's €26.99 but I'm sure there are more affordable options here in Beijing.

By the way, where would be the best place to get grammar books on Chinese here that are explained in English or are there other good iBooks available. Cheers.

[Kev]

Take it from me as a language teacher and someone who is now a professional Chinese to English translator, giving students wrong examples is NOT, I repeat NOT, the way to teach.

Take it also from me as a language teacher and someone who is now a professional Chinese to English translator, a grammar-based approach is NOT the way to learn a language. You don't learn to drive a car by studying mechanics, just like you don't learn a language by studying grammar. Grammar is an artificial analysis of a language, much like a climate model is an artificial analysis of climate. They might be "right", but they really don't get you far.

And a word on grammar. I was given a multiple choice exam which was heavily dependent on a grammar-based framework. I had absolutely no idea of the expected answers, but completed the test by what "felt" right (perhaps like a native speaker would do). I not only passed the exam, but got quite high marks.

You might want to check out my post with some advice in it:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/6539-how-could-i-get-better-at-tones/page__st__80#comment-315900

[Demonic_Duck]

Wow. "This one approach didn't work for me personally, so instead of answering the questions asked by the OP I will present my subjective opinions as hard facts and link to an unrelated post".

Explicit grammatical knowledge is helpful when intuition fails you, especially as a beginner. I'd caution against relying on it too heavy, but I'd also caution against completely neglecting it. Use your grammar books as helpful study aids when you're struggling with something, not as a bible. Also, correcting "病句" ("sick sentences") can be a helpful exercise in "debugging", so to speak. There's nothing wrong with using this as a way to work out a tricky grammar point in your head.

I'm unable to provide many suggestions myself as I've rarely used books specifically about grammar. I believe the Routlege "Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar: A Practical Guide" is a solid starting place, and provides grammar points helpfully organised by purpose rather than form. I haven't honestly used it extensively though.

On a completely unrelated note, iBooks? Seriously? Apple branding makes me want to puke sometimes.

[li3wei1]

You don't learn to drive a car by studying mechanics, just like you don't learn a language by studying grammar.

I would suggest that this is the wrong metaphor. When learning to drive, it is extremely helpful to read the Highway Code (that's in the UK, substitute local equivalent) so you know which side of the road to drive on, what the signs mean, who has precedence at intersections, and what the speed limits are. It's not all you need to know, but it's very useful.

[li3wei1]

I'm sure there are more affordable options here in Beijing.

I've seen quite a few books of this sort, but they're in Chinese. I've got one on my shelf: 外国人学汉语语法偏误分析 from BLCU Press, for 18 yuan. If you go to the right kind of bookstore, they might all be together, and you can browse for one that you can understand enough of. If the right and wrong sentences are clearly marked, and the explanations not too long, it might be useful to you, even if you can't understand everything in the book. The one I've listed doesn't pass that test.

[Kev]

Demonic_Duck, I didn't say it didn't work for me personally. I said as a teacher I have been trained to NOT use wrong examples.

As for grammar, let me make a further point. You may be confusing "structures" in the language with grammatical analysis. It is often particular structures which cause newbies problems. Thus for example, you don't need to know the grammatical terms to understand

不但... 反而

除了... 以外

为 ... 而为。。。而 为...

既...也/又/且

As for your point that about linking gratuitously to an "unrelated post", I linked because I thought it was useful for a beginner.

Nonetheless, we seem to be in agreement that an emphasis on grammar is not the way to go.

li3wei1, you've clearly hit on the problem of metaphor; may I humbly suggest that the highway code one doesn't work either.

[imron]

Take it from me as a language teacher and someone who is now a professional Chinese to English translator

How's that been working out for you?

[Ruben von Zwack]

Of course you do not teach people wrong sentences. But adressing specific problems, related to the learner's background, is necessary sometimes.

I can tell a Thai person one million times "in German (and English), the way to phrase it is "I like xy very much".

But it won't help. They will nod, and without fail, the next time we meet, say "I like this movie too much!" again, because it feels natural to them.

I have to spell it out: "Look, that's a mistake, I know it's the way to say it in Thai, but don't do it in German or English!"

I believe the Routlege "Modern Mandarin Chinese Grammar: A Practical Guide" is a solid starting place, and provides grammar points helpfully organised by purpose rather than form.

Yup I'm using it extensively currently. It is solid indeed. Can 100% recommend it (for beginner to lower intermediate).

[pprendeville]

Thanks for the feedback all. Appreciate the different viewpoints. Where might I get a copy of the Routledge book here in Beijing in a bookstore? Currently my bank card can't be used online. When my wife was pressing me to get internet banking I didn't realise it was required to make online purchases and stupidly declined.