Pengyou Posted October 29, 2013 at 05:13 AM Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 at 05:13 AM When do I use putong? when pubian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted October 29, 2013 at 05:31 AM Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 at 05:31 AM I think something that is not extraordinary and has nothing special about it is putong. Something that is widely seen/accepted or is popular is pubian. Something that is putong is usually pubian, eg smoking and divorce. An ordinary man is a putongren, and it is generally believed (pubian renwei) that it is not bad being one. PS - but of course the putong in putonghua (普通話) and putongfa (普通法/common law) does not mean that they are nothing special. It means 普遍通行. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted October 29, 2013 at 10:49 AM Report Share Posted October 29, 2013 at 10:49 AM What dictionary and / or other resources are you using? It's appreciated if you show that you've tried to figure it out for yourself before posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengyou Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:06 AM Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:06 AM I usually use the dictionary on mdgb.net but they give no examples. Per their definition, Chinese should be Pubianhua, not putonghua. I am very open to suggestions for other websites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingo-ling Posted November 1, 2013 at 07:22 AM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 07:22 AM My Mandarin-speaking colleagues here in Taipei assure me that in the compound 普遍, 遍 is pronounced pian4, not bian4. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted November 1, 2013 at 07:57 AM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 07:57 AM My Mandarin-speaking colleagues here in Taipei assure me that in the compound 普遍, 遍 is pronounced pian4, not bian4. Well, it's interesting that they are more authoritative than any dictionary I've consulted or the teachers who taught me. Perhaps it's a regional thing, however you'd be advised to check a dictionary before posting something that unhelpful to the actual topic at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingo-ling Posted November 1, 2013 at 08:48 AM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 08:48 AM Well, I've only ever heard it pronounced pu3 pian4, which is how I hear it here in Taipei, not just from my colleagues. I think people should be aware of well-established regional pronunciations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
li3wei1 Posted November 1, 2013 at 08:49 AM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 08:49 AM you'd be advised to check a dictionary before posting something that unhelpful to the actual topic at hand. Chill. He's reporting evidence from the field. He's not claiming that something is right or wrong. A lot of these threads devolve into exactly the same thing, people reporting what they've seen, heard, or been told, or how people have reacted to what they've said. The overwhelming lesson that can be picked up from this forum is that there is a lot of variation in Chinese, and what may be 'standard' in one place sounds strange in another. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted November 1, 2013 at 11:15 AM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 11:15 AM But he wasn't just reporting what he'd seen/heard, rather he was claiming an "authority" in the pronunciation as he was "assured" of how it was pronounced by his colleagues. Saying, "In Taiwan they say it this way" is very different from what was actually said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:01 PM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:01 PM Pengyou: " I am very open to suggestions for other websites" Amazon.cn for buying a proper dictionary? MDBG and the like are great for a quick look up for a translation, but you need example sentences and usage notes. There used to be (and I'd hope still are) books for the old HSK exams with info on just this kind of problem. For reference, the Guifan includes a note on 遍 specifying that it should only ever be read bian, not pian - which presumably means it happens often enough that it needs to be warned against. I don't recall ever hearing the pian pronunciation, and I think if you use it on the mainland as a foreigner it'll be assumed to be an error, rather than a different usage you've picked up somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingo-ling Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:01 PM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:01 PM No, I wasn't claiming any "authority". Having heard only the "pupian" pronunciation, I checked various dictionaries and saw "pubian" being listed as the standard pronunciation. So I brought up the issue to my Taiwanese colleagues, and all three of the ones I asked (they are educated Taipei-ites in their 30s) said quite adamantly it was "pupian". It's a simple unscientific field survey, and nowhere did I claim this as authoritative. I could do the same with the pronunciation of 血, which in Taiwan tends to be pronounced "xue3" rather than "xie4". And 期 as qi2 instead of qi1. There are regional differences; that's something people should be aware of. And dictionaries are hardly the be-all and end-all, as anyone who has looked up 幹部 and seen "cadre" as the only listed English translation can tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:16 PM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:16 PM My point was the way it was written felt as if it was "authoritative" due to its source, not that you were claiming authority. Also, it sounds like you intended it to be a question not a statement as it was written. All very key points as to how and why I interpreted your post as I did. My main point is what Roddy brought up, whereas your example of those pronunciations are actual pronunciations just used improperly. And you're right, dictionaries are hardly the end all, but once again, that was in reference to your initial post's wording. Sorry for any perceived attack-been a long day for me and I think I wasn't considering my words well enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muyongshi Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:20 PM Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 at 12:20 PM Per their definition, Chinese should be Pubianhua, not putonghua. I am very open to suggestions for other websites See post #2 from Skylee. It is explained that the 普通的 is actually 普遍通行 and that fits with the definitions you were getting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooironic Posted November 3, 2013 at 01:06 AM Report Share Posted November 3, 2013 at 01:06 AM My understanding is 普通 just means common, while 普遍 means commonplace, widespread or pervasive. Note that common can also be expressed as 常见. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengyou Posted November 4, 2013 at 12:37 PM Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 at 12:37 PM Thanks! My, what did I start?? ;) Can you recommend a good dictionary for my android - or at least for my pc? as good as the best paper one? I have not lugged around an actual paper dictionary in more than 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skylee Posted November 4, 2013 at 12:42 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 at 12:42 PM I have been on this website for a long time and have seen countless threads on recommendations of dictionaries. Perhaps you can do a search? People usually recommend Pleco. You can download it to your android. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 4, 2013 at 12:44 PM Report Share Posted November 4, 2013 at 12:44 PM Once everyone's recovered from shock at the fact that you've been a member here for 7 years and still have to ask that question - get Pleco and as many of its dictionaries as you can afford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pengyou Posted November 18, 2013 at 08:25 AM Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 at 08:25 AM I have been using the Wenlin dictionary on my computer for the past 10 years, since I was a student. I recently had to replace my hd and discovered that my Wenlin disk does not work and that I have to spend a lot of $$ to get a replacement I installed Pleco on my phone in May, while I was in HK (I live in Shenzhen) but then a couple of months later it would not work - I think it tried to update itself and made it stop working. I don't remember the actual wording of the error message but it made me think that the problem was the same as the problem which kept me from accessing Pleco in the mainland in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roddy Posted November 18, 2013 at 09:03 AM Report Share Posted November 18, 2013 at 09:03 AM You should solve these problems in order to be able to learn Chinese better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allen Zhang Posted November 27, 2013 at 04:08 AM Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 at 04:08 AM When you describe a person or an object, use 普通; When you describe a situation or a phenomenon, use 普遍. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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