Progressing from Intermediate and Private Lessons

[Touchstone57]

Hello,

 

I know there have been similar threads on this topic, but I would like some fresh perspective and perhaps advice specific to my background.

 

I've been taking Chinese lessons now for 7 months (Part time evening classes, 1.30 hours twice a week).

 

For me attending classes was one way to motivate myself as part of learning Chinese, as I was stuck in the beginner bracket for too long and I wanted to progress into the intermediate stage, and attending classes twice a week was one way to keep up the momentum. However, I feel this is no longer the case, as I put lots time in to studying Chinese independently each day as well as trying to use native materials. 

 

Attending Classes and Textbook learning: The particular school I go to for Chinese study have produced their own textbooks for each level and sub level, and they try to have every course finished within a set time period. I feel this course is definitely good for early learners, but I find I can't get that much from textbooks any more. Does anyone feel the same? I feel there are diminishing returns the longer I attend lessons. Each chapter in the textbook will involve cramming 30 new vocabulary words into one or two dialogues, with increasingly difficult structures and grammar patterns. You have hardly processed this before you move on to the next chapter, at which point those weak links you made previously in those lessons disappear (Not to mention the dialogues are not that useful!).

 

As well as this, I feel constricted by other students in the class, as for some there is a huge gap in knowledge and fluency, which makes it quite difficult for more advanced learners, as well as wasting valuable time as the teacher tries to describe things in English as they can't understand. There tends to a focus on reading dialogues out loud as a group, and then producing our own sentences from the vocabulary. I feel this is of very limited use as some people read atrociously and there isn't really time to correct their sentences.

 

So I'd like to know if other people have similar experiences and what you suggest. How long have people attended classes for and which method has worked best for you? What is the best method to go for with private tutors, how do you plan your time etc?

 

Private Lessons

Because of what I mentioned above I've been thinking more and more about 1 to 1 lessons, but I'd like a bit of feedback here from other people who have tried it. I feel like this could be a much more effective way of learning, as I can dictate the content of the lessons, and focus more on speaking and being corrected which is what I would like to do, without the distraction of other learners.

 

The only question is, how do you decide the content of the private lessons? The one benefit of going through textbooks and course structures is having large amounts of pre prepared material, vocabulary, exercises  etc. Do people usually decide with their tutor what material they go through? I'd really appreciate the advice, as I don't want to go through any more stale textbooks. 

 

To get an idea of my level:

Passed HSK 3 Recently

Reading Chinese Breeze - Read one chapter a day and listen to accompanying audio at Lunch time (I have now finished all books in level one).

Glossika Mass Sentence Method - 20 new sentences per day, review of 4 previous days practise each day

Watching Chinese TV Shows - attempting to complete at least a couple episodes each week. Reading transcripts, creating vocab lists, listen on repeat when necessary

Daily SRS review: Whenever I get a free moment, or I am travelling I will go through my SRS cards

Chinese music: I listen to a lot of Chinese pop music (I don't like it that much btw) whilst travelling to and from work. I try to make it as 'active' as possible. 

Finished Heisig Volume 1 on Simplified Hanzi. 

[li3wei1]

If you've finished all the level one Chinese Breeze books, then level two would make a good set of learning materials. You can get one-to-one teachers Skype teachers pretty cheaply on various sites, or free if you do an exchange with them, and if you have the budget you can pay for more qualified/experienced/good ones. Spend your own time reading the books and learning the characters, then with your teacher, spend some time reading out loud, some time asking about things you've read but don't understand, some time making new sentences with grammar patterns you've learned, and some time just chatting.

 

Alternatively, look around for a better course in your area. There might be one at a higher level where you'll be the one struggling to keep up, rather than the one struggling to keep your eyes open while everyone else catches up.

[Marguerite]

I can't give advice on group courses, as (so far) I haven't been able to find one I can attend. I can give my feedback on private courses, though.

I loved my private courses. I could go as fast or as slow as I needed, and cover what I wanted to cover. Because I was an absolute beginner, we started with a textbook, and went through that. We also always discussed my day, to practice conversation and to use more 'real life' terms and things. I also could skip around if I wanted to -- my first weekend in Guangzhou, I asked to go over things that would be useful in supermarkets, hotels, and restaurants, as that was mostly where I'd be trying to speak with people. Toward the end, I'd decided that I'd like to sit the proper HSK, so we started adding mock exams. I also had more spoken exercises, where I had to look at a picture (or set of pictures) and describe what was happening.

Because I was taking private lessons through a school, I was also able to take lessons with multiple teachers. This meant that I could get more experience with different pronunciation, methods, etc. It's certainly possible to set this up on your own, but it'd be harder.

You can cover anything you like with a private teacher, and they should be able to help you meet your determined goals or suggest new ones, especially if they're experienced. The more focused the goals, the harder it could be to find a qualified teacher, of course. (I'm reminded of the poster here who found a speech pathologist to work on their pronunciation. Great, I'm sure, but you need to find a speech pathologist!)

[icebear]

Private lessons will help a lot with reinforcing material, granted you have the right teacher. I think even private lessons have diminishing returns over time (maybe around the HSK5/6 level) - mostly because at the most advance levels they require a lot of study and homework outside of the lesson to really make the most of it.

 

If at higher levels (HSK5+) you're just meeting, reading some material and discussing it with correction its likely you could get as much from studying material on your own and trying to use it everyday with Chinese friends. If you're using private lessons at higher levels to really drill grammar mistakes, usage of similar words in different situations, and especially composition, then you'll get a lot from them still - but those all require a lot of dedication and review to cement. My impression is that many people taking private lessons at higher levels are doing so on top of work (thus, no regular classes) so that is unlikely. I'm around HSK5/6 and I use PPTs or report summaries from my job (in English) as material - lessons consist of me trying to explain to my tutor what they mean, why they matter, etc - the kind of discussion that is useful for me in my job, too (assuming I get it polished well enough!). 

 

At your level (HSK3+) I think there is still a lot to gain with the basic lesson I mentioned above - chatting and correction, centered around certain topics or book lessons. At ~HSK3 I think its still worthwhile to structure lessons against a textbook you are following, although you can slowly transition into subject material that you prefer to focus on if that gets too stale. 

 

Once you are getting well into the HSK4 or higher level you should be spending a lot more time reading, reading, reading (and composing) [edit: on your own, not with a tutor] which I think is where a lot of people fail to transition. Intermediate and advanced students in other languages tend to read a ton in the second language, but most Chinese learners take that leap too late (I think). Doing 30-60 minutes of Chinese reading a per day (e.g. novels and some news) plus going through a lesson in a appropriate level textbook each week is probably a lot more efficient then just cramming through textbooks at a much faster rate. All that reading does wonders to cement new vocab and grammar.

[Ruben von Zwack]

Well if any of you intend to learn Cantonese, I have a friend who is a Cantonese speech therapist 

But seriously - Touchstone, I can relate to your situation.

 Attending Classes and Textbook learning (...)  So I'd like to know if other people have similar experiences and what you suggest.

Yes: I have attended two semesters of Chinese class at uni with a few hours per week (for students who are majoring in other fields), and your description could have been mine. It's just the situation: too many students so you can't even adress each one individually, limited time, a text book to speed through in this limited time. Given by the sheer amount of vocab and grammar, my Chinese should have been quite proficient. While in fact, I wouldn't even know how to adress another person and have a conversation. Let alone understand!

After that I was looking for Chinese classes in my town, but there just aren't any. Well, of course there are quite a few, but only for beginners.

And there are (pricey) HSK preparation courses, but let's be honest - learning for the HSK is learning for the HSK, like, learning rules that apply to this particular game only. It is not to be confused with learning Chinese.

I really liked having individual class in Beijing recently. We did use a text book, but I could ask everything I wanted around that. Maybe this will change some time in the future, but currently, I like text books because on my own, I'm rather not so well structured.

I'm lucky that I did find a lot of Chinese music that I like, so I don't have to make an effort to listen. Actually, it was a bit the other way round: I liked Chinese music so much that I decided to quit Japanese and concentrate on Chinese.

And also, lucky me, wuxia has always been one of my favourite film genres. So I don't have to change habits there, on the opposite, finally I can indulge

 

My plans are, currently, to invest the funds and take Skype lessons. I have been comparing the links in this post (see my post on the last page of that topic - a few websites don't seem to exist anymore):
http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/18772-online-tutoring-and-software-free-trials/

and I think I'll go for one of the two expensive ones, Chineseteachers or Chinesehour, for reasons that are just obvious when you look at their websites, compared to others.

Anyway, it's good to know there are others in a similar situation.

[abcdefg]

The only question is, how do you decide the content of the private lessons? 

 

Two main factors determine this. First off, ask yourself what you want to study and ask your tutor to help you do that. Second, ask you tutor what he or she perceives as your most deficient areas, and spend some time concentrating on those.

 

Do people usually decide with their tutor what material they go through?

 

Yes. Sometimes I'll supply a book that I'd like to use in class. Other times, my tutor and I go to the bookstore together and select something to use.

 

Might add that we don't always get the right book on the first attempt despite our best efforts. Sometimes after a week or two, we have to try a different book. Sometimes one that is less advanced, sometimes one that is more advanced. The issue of how 书面 it is can also be a factor.

 

As to taking a class with other students or studying via private lessons, the one and only advantage I can see to the former is lower cost.

[tysond]

I've done Chinese lessons in group classes and I found them fine for early stages where you are learning the real basics, and chances are you are the slowest student in the room.  I remember listening super-carefully to the heritage learners who used actual Chinese expressions that we hadn't learned in the textbook or class and picking up what they said.  But it's really simple stuff - HSK1 or 2 level.

 

Very fast I found it was better to invest more money in the private teacher and find one who is aligned with your goals.  

 

As you say, getting correction on your speaking is the most valuable thing.  The entire class is yours and you can converse the entire time.

Learn Chinese vocab for grammar words, mouth/tongue positions, etc and you can do it almost all in Chinese.  

The only caveat is that if you get chummy with your teacher they will lower their speech to your level and you'll struggle with real native content.

But sounds like you are imposing a strong diet of native content - bring that to the lessons and it will stretch your discussion.

 

Interesting views from @icebar regarding higher level learning - as I advance I found my teacher is most useful in pronunciation (always needs work), sentence construction and understanding nuances of meaning.  Many other things (reading, learning characters, listening) you can do by yourself with books that cost a fraction of the lessons required to learn the same things.  

[icebear]

Interesting views from @icebar regarding higher level learning - as I advance I found my teacher is most useful in pronunciation (always needs work), sentence construction and understanding nuances of meaning.

I agree - this was my intention, although I've edited a sentence in my post above to make that clearer.

[Touchstone57]

Thanks for all the great advice here.

 

The past week I did try a 1 to 1 lesson, and it was 10 x  better than any group lesson I have tried, so I definately think I will continue more in the future. Though this was a one off so I will have to search for a teacher that I happy with. 

 

It is good to be able to decide the pace of the lesson and focus on specific errors.

 

I agree with the above - reading and listening to lots of native material to get high frequency repetitions and to improve your ability, whilst using the lessons to improve the mechanics of your speaking ability. 

[roddy]

Touchstone, tell us how you've been getting on with this?