Kinetic learners - I'm looking for study techniques.

[SirDude]

Ni Hao, 

 

I've been away from the forum for a long time and sad to say my mandarin hasn't improved much while gone. However, now I find myself living in Tainan City, Taiwan for the winter months. So I really need to put more effort into studying. 

 

I have recently learned that I am a "kinetic learner". (explains a lot about my childhood! haha) Unfortunately, as I know from learning my native language, studying a language is not one of my strong points. 

 

Any Kinetic Learners on the forum? I only saw one tread mentioning this learning style. :-( 

 

What are some of your study techniques for building basic vocabulary and speaking?  

 

Xiexie! 

[roddy]

Welcome back. What exactly is a kinetic learner?

[SirDude]

Roddy, xiexie for the welcoming party. ;-) 

 

"Kinetic Learning" is a style of learning. Some people are visual learners, some are audio learners. Only about 5-10% of the population is a "kinetic learner". They say kinetic learners are "do'ers". We learn best from "touching, feeling, "doing" something. We are naturally bad at writing or spelling, but have good mechanical skills. 

 

Since I returned to studying mandarin, I have been trying to figure out why I remember some words but can't retain others. 

 

The only study aid / technique I hear over and over is the use of flashcards. Other general advice I hear is to study for short periods and maybe even use a "stand-up" style desk. I guess the more we (kinetic learners) move while studying the better we are.

[Guest realmayo]

Some people reckon that the idea of "learning styles" is completely false. So, if you find a studying method that works well for you that's great but make sure you're not discounting common learning methods just because technically they don't fit the style you're told you belong to.

[Lu]

What makes this complicated of course is that you can't really touch or do a language, it's mostly visual and aural. I suppose one thing that should work for you is writing things down: the physical thing of a pen in your hand and the creating of a character or word seems the closest to what you're describing. Or perhaps you could do an activity with a native speaker and learn all the related words as you come across the things or actions in question.

 

If there are things that work for you, that's great, but like 楼上 I wouldn't put all my faith in what officially falls under a certain category. Even if you're not an aural learner, you still need to learn how to speak and listen if you want to know the language well.

[gato]

Maybe you can find a exercise partner and practice the language while working out? Would that help?

[tysond]

Sounds like an interesting theory, and I have seen HR pay lots of $$$$ to consultants to come in and teach everyone about it, but apparently there is no actual evidence that this theory is correct.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinesthetic_learning#Lack_of_evidence

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_styles#Criticism

 

There are lots of ways to learn.  Learning Chinese takes a long time.  Whatever you enjoy and keeps you motivated is what I would recommend, so that you can stay the distance.

[OneEye]

I could just imagine somebody going to photography-forums.com (or whatever) and saying "Guys, I'm an auditory learner, is there any way I can learn photography by listening? I'm not a visual person, so I'm bad at all that stuff, I just need a method of learning photography that's suited to auditory learners."

 

There are a few problems with this, OP, not least of which is that you've resigned yourself to being bad at something because of some arbitrary classification. But fundamentally, language is an aural/oral phenomenon (and secondarily, a written one), and the sooner you face that reality head on, the better your results will be. You won't learn photography by listening, and you won't learn a language by moving.

[耳耳语语]

Maybe we can agree that "aural, visual, kinetic" are mixed factors, all important in our global memory.

 

If the kinetic factor is important for you, i would suggest :

- writing

- shadowing

http://www.foreignlanguageexpertise.com/foreign_language_study.html#svd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdheWK7u11w

- re-enact dialogs

[SirDude]

Thank you to everyone who has commented. 

 

Since there's so many comments I won't address each person by name. Here's what I have found so far about learning styles. Yes, there is no "100% proof" that they are really. Also, no one is a 100% [ A,V, or K ] learner. Just like personality types or "left-right brain" thinkers. Learning is a mixture of styles. However, just because science hasn't proven something doesn't mean it's not there. Proving something right or wrong leads to labeling, I hate labels. Labels make people debate the science or technicality of something. I am not standing behind "kinetic learning" as a reason why I can or can not learn something and I'm not here to debate the "learning style" topic. I'm here to learn the "what and why" something worked or didn't work for others who might feel they are like. 

 

I can not argue with the information on kinetic learning since I am in my mid 40's and this explains a LOT about myself. (in a good way) The way I have learned just about everything in my life, and even more, the things I struggled to learn. I won't say that this is the ONLY style I use. However, it's my dominate style. Visual being the second, and Audio playing a very small part.

 

One of my personal hobbies is Photography. How did I learn something that is so visual when that is not my strong point? By the very definition of a kinetic learner. I picked up the camera and used it. As a "do'er", that is how I learn. The end result of photography might be a visual one, but the process is a very a mechanical one. Turn this knob, adjust that light, frame the scene, etc. All fit my learning style. Do I have all the vocabulary of a photographer? No. That does not stay in my head, but it doesn't prevent me from going out and using a camera.    

 

So yes, learning any language has been a chore for me. It does complicate things when you can't "touch" or "do" something. This doesn't mean I won't learn to use this skill. Just means I need to find a way to make it stick in my head long enough to use it. 

 

Thank you. Have a wonderful day! 

[li3wei1]

"I picked up the camera and used it. As a "do'er", that is how I learn."

 

From your original post, you're living in Tainan, and you want to learn basic vocab and speaking.

 

This sounds like a no-brainer. Get out there and start talking. Am I missing something?

 

Are you worried about writing/reading as well? Have you looked at Skritter? I haven't used it, but it sounds like a kinetic sort of learning thing.

[OneEye]

Actually, li3wei1 is exactly right. Get out there and talk. Form relationships with the people you run into every day. Language Acquisition Made Practical and Guidelines for Barefoot Language Learning are two books that have really good ideas about this kind of thing.

 

I still stand by the fact that language is sound, and so you must listen, listen, listen and mimic, mimic, mimic. Regardless of your "learning style." Nobody ever got good at a language without doing these two things.

[imron]

I agree with that to a large degree, and I would also add that all skills are learnable and can be trained.  You might not be good at learning aurally/visually now, but you can train those abilities - maybe not to best-in-the-world level, and possibly not even to best-out-of-all-my-friends level, but definitely to a point where you can learn things effectively that way.

 

Like any other skill you learn, it will be difficult and awkward at first, but assuming correct practice, the more you practice it, the better you will get.

[Ruben von Zwack]

Isn't speaking a physical exercise? Yes, it needs the brain of course. But way faster than one could consciously think and make decisions. So is speaking different from how a trained musician plays an instrument?

[Guest realmayo]

I think there's almost a case for saying that if you don't think you're good with skills that involve reading or listening, that you should spend extra effort on them. Most people studying Chinese will want to understand spoken Chinese and understand written Chinese. 

 

To echo what Imron said, and what ties in what what I've been reading recently about so-called neuroplasticity: effort, repeated regularly, can change how your brain is structured, can change your abilities and preferences, can change what you're good at and bad at, and can do so whatever age you're at. If you think you're bad at listening, relentlessly repeat drills that test you on distinguishing tone pairs, for instance. If you're not good at reading, read every day. Then you'll be good at learning anyway, be it kinetic or listening or visual.

[SirDude]

Xiexie. 

 

Li3Wei1 is correct. This is how I retain most of what I have learned so far. 

 

There's always a "But..." 

 

"The Problem" for me is retaining any vocabulary long enough to go use it. This is why I am committed to staying in Taiwan for the winter. So far it's been one of two ways for me to retain any useful words. The second way is similar to the first. When I send IM / Emails, etc to my girlfriend I write kind of like Singlish. I have a cheat-sheet of basic vocabulary that I keep by my computer and when writing I add the mandarin word for whatever I can.

 

No, I am not looking to be some world-class speaker, translator, etc. I want to converse with my GF, order food, or tell a taxi driver where I need to go. Mandarin is like everything else we learn. At first we stumble, but after some practice we get the basics. From there it's up to each person to put in the effort to achieve the level of success we desire.

 

trust me when I say, I am not trying to make this any harder than it needs to be. On the other hand, I understand it is not a simple language to learn. I have already seen great improvement in my basic knowledge since August, and since being in Taiwan for a month now I am getting more comfortable speaking and listening in public.

 

 

Ruben, I think the act of speaking / singing / producing a sound is physical, but there's the part of remembering what to say. I hired a tutor back in August. For two weeks she mostly had me repeat the pinyin chart in four tones and watch her mouth. A giant help for me to see the physical forming of the lips and tongue. It was also a great help that her husband is an american who speaks and writes chinese very well. So thanks to the two of them I gained a lot of ground quickly.  

[耳耳语语]

Will this kinetic bashing ever stop ? It think kinetic is underrated, because it's usually simultaneous with the other forms of memory. (For example prononciation drills are both  aural and kinetic).

 

About kinesthetic learning of languages :

 

*http://www.liveinasiablog.com/2011/04/4-strategies-for-bodily-kinesthetic-learners/

If you are a bodily-kinesthetic learner, you need to be active.

*http://712educators.about.com/od/learningstyles/p/kinesthetic.htm

they learn best when activities are varied

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_physical_response#Procedure

The majority of class time in TPR lessons is spent doing drills in which the instructor gives commands using the imperative mood. Students respond to these commands with physical actions.

* "Learning Another Language through Actions: The Complete Teacher's Guidebook."

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3585610?uid=3738016&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21103003305697

 

You could also learn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Sign_Language

[SirDude]

Realmayo, you mentioned an interested point. The tutor I hired this summer is married to an American guy. When he was studying in China his teacher made him listen to all types of different people's speaking styles. I don't know where he got the audio from, but the teacher had recordings of people in bars, on a train, someone who mumbled, someone talking with food in their mouth, etc. His teacher did this to him because his listening skills where very bad. The American guy can write like you would not believe. Medical books, all levels of college math, but has a hard time listening. 

 

There's also a video on YouTube with a guy talking about studying the things you hate doing the most. 

 

So yes, with repeated practice I think we can improve any skill.  

[Ruben von Zwack]

I had great difficulties with Chinese and assumed I would just never be able to use this language. Maybe you can relate and take some idea from it?

I have a good visual memory. So for about a year, when I attended classes in uni, Chinese was a system of rules of how to combine graphics for me, but not a language. It was depressing. I felt like a total failure and like a one-trick pony: I can write a sentence neatly and fill in the blank in a given written exercise. Teacher will say "very good" and assume I know Chinese. And in fact, I'm just cheating.

 

Then two good things happened: I registered for HSK2, and I discovered this forum here.

I listened to a mock test and could not understand a word, apart from "dajia hao". It was a shock, about 10 days before the actual exam.

I thought, I'll totally fail, but Im crazy enough to at least give it a try.

So what I did was, I put those mock tests on my mp3 player, plus a lot of mp3s I made myself from various sources, all found on this forum. I listened to them when I was having breakfast, while I was riding my bike back back and forth to work, in the bath tub at night. Last thing I did every night was watching a Chinese wuxia series. And little by little, after a few days, sentences popped up in my ear and made sense.

That was my turning point.

 

Long story short, what I am meaning to say is: maybe you have to make an insane effort, over two weeks or so. Obviously not longer, cause you'll burn out. And you might have to be creative and find what works for you, maybe make your own learning material.

[SirDude]

Ruben, thank you for sharing your experiences and thoughts. Yes, I'm going insane that's for sure. haha Seriously, I've been trying a number of different approaches. What I have been focusing on the most is trying to figure out why I remember certain words and not others.

 

(Regardless of the learning style) What seems to be a common theme with what I remember is having something to relate the information to. Like remembering the sounds for "Ai" or "Ei" is easy because I relate them to the word "taipei". Some other words sound similar to American  English word, that they will stick in my head because the meaning is so wrong.

 

One problem I am currently trying to fix is not relating words or letter combinations that are spelled the same as english words. "You" / ou, things like that. I can recite the pinyin chart fine. Then I see a street sign with You or Hua and I want to say English sounds. The other day I did something like what you mentioned. I put some of the mp3 files of key problem words or sounds on a loop in iTunes. Put my head down and just listened to the same sound 80 to 100 times.

 

So far the thing that has the best rate of success is having an embarrassing moment using the word. I have no problem ordering black tea now because the girl laughed at me when I first trying to say "Wo yao hong cha". However, spending my day being embarrassed is not my idea of fun. haha  

 

Thanks again, Have a wonderful day.