Questions about pronunciation of various vowels/consonants/syllables

[Devron]

I've been reading through various posts on these forums over the past week or two, and given how useful and interesting I've found most of the threads I've read I figured I'd go ahead and pose a few questions that I have on here. I did search (both these forums and the Google) for these, and found some things that answered some to various extents, but none left me fully satisfied; if I just missed an old thread that answers something I'll happily accept a link to said thread.

A few questions based on my own (admittedly limited) experiences studying Mandarin for the past ~11 months (Apologies in advance for use of English approximations, it's been a few years since the only linguistics class I took and I've subsequently forgotten IPA; also note I use // to indicate pinyin sounds, as I think I saw that being used in another post on here and I have no idea what the standard is):

The initial question I was looking up was regarding pronunciation of /a/. Specifically, several of my classmates have a tendency to pronounce it as the 'a' in 'apple' rather than the 'a' in 'father'. I personally find this really annoying, but none of the teachers have corrected it (admittedly they also don't correct numerous other obvious pronunciation mistakes for many students at this point, only wrong tones from usually decent speakers are enough to reliably provoke corrections). Also, I am currently engaged in a month-long immersion program in Taiwan, and none of the Taiwanese people have seemed to have any difficulty understanding this pronunciation. I am particularly vexed because said classmates will pronounce it oddly in the first syllable of a word such as 班長 but to standard in the second syllable, but I suppose that's neither here nor there.

On a similar track, I've heard some native speakers pronounce /a/ as apple's 'a' in 'ran', specifically 當然, though I've also heard that pronounced as father's 'a', as well as something that sounds to me to be in between the two. Is this a standard and/or common pronunciation, and if so can it be expanded to syllables other than 'ran'? (Obviously ignoring /-ian/ syllables)

And while we're on the topic 'ran', I also discovered (during my efforts searching these forums for an answer to the previous questions) that I've been doing quite a not very 標準 job of pronouncing /r/ in some/many cases. I've more or less been using American style 'r' for /r/ wherever it appears, and while no one has expressed any issue understanding, it seems that really isn't the standard. But it sounds like it is some of the time, perhaps? At least for syllables of -r (to include both rhotarization and words in which the second syllable begins with /r/), if there is a difference between American 'r' and /r/ I can't discern it. For syllables of r-, I've heard things ranging from what to me sounds like American 'r' up to what the standard pronunciation is, though I honestly think most of the materials I've heard have to have been not the most standard, because only in 'ri' has it been frequently pronounced in a non-American-r-ish enough fashion to leave an impression on me (and even that I'd say I've heard more than a few variations on). I'm confident I now understand what the standard is and can produce it, but I'm curious if most native speakers actually use the standard.

And now a couple specific things I've noticed just in my time here in Taiwan that have me questioning my own understanding. My Chinese name is 戴倫, none of the teachers I've encountered here or in the US have had any trouble understanding my pronunciation of it, but more than a few Taiwanese non-teachers hear what I said as 戴文, and only upon seeing the characters do they repeat it back correctly (and in a way that sounds to me exactly like how I thought I said it initially). Is there a significant difference between English 'l' and /l/?

One final question that kind of combines several of the previous, do Taiwanese or certain other groups often have issues hearing /l/ in general and/or distinguishing /l/ and /r/? Today, one of my tutors noted that my pronunciation of 人's /r/ wasn't standard, and then repeated back what she heard me say as /len/ when I was using an American-style 'r'. I then repeated it several times swapping American-style 'r' and 'l' each time and she didn't seem to hear any difference. I've also heard some Taiwanese people pronounce for example 當然 as what sounds to me rather like /danglen/. Our tutors during this immersion program change daily, and I also recently had one much more qualified than the one I had today tell me that my pronunciation was overall pretty standard (obviously taken with several grains of salt, but just for comparison). Not sure if these experiences are representative of dialectical differences here or if my pronunciation is actually really off. I'm slightly worried that if I'm off with definitely /r/ and possibly /l/, I could have other issues as well.

Thank you if you've read this far, I apologize for being so long-winded and appreciate any comments, ideas, opinions, tips, etc.

[Hofmann]

About Pinyin "a": It can be realized differently depending on context. You probably know of it becoming /ɛ/ in "{i,y}an" and "{j,q,x,y}uan." It also varies between /a/ and /ɑ/. Besides in the aforementioned cases, if it is followed by a back vowel or velar nasal, it will be /ɑ/. Examples: 班長 /pan˥ ʈʂɑŋ˨˩˦/ 當然 /tɑŋ˥ ʐan˧˥/. /a/ is probably what you are confusing with /æ/.

 

"r" in initial position varies between /ʐ/ and /ɻ/ (the American r, approximately). In final position it's more like /ɻ/, and also modifying things before it. See this article for details.

 

AFAIK there is no difference between Pinyin "l" and English "l". I don't know what could make your 戴倫 sound like 戴文. Posting a recording could help.

 

When I was in Taiwan, I think I observed most people realizing "r" as /ɻ/. In some rare cases some people would say something like /l/ or /n/ or...something alveolar. Depending on your tutor, you may get different levels of tolerance for anything other than something between and including /ʐ/ and /ɻ/.

[陳德聰]

If you slow down 倫 a bunch, you can almost pretend it is made up of two syllables: le-wen. Maybe you're transitioning too quickly from the first half to the second without properly pronouncing the actual "le" part.

[son828257]

Why Taiwanese people pronounce 當然 as /danglen/ grew from a dialectal difference between Taiwan and the mainland, and it's also a part of Taiwanese accent. Mandarin were not widey used in Taiwan until Chiang's goverment(The Republic of China) took over the island in 1945, and befor

e that, 台語(a dialect spoken in parts of China and Taiwan) and Japanese were more more common in Taiwan.

Originally, to pronounce /jr/, /chr/, /shr/, /r/ correctly, the tongue should be rolled to the roof of the mouth, but there is no such a pronunciation that needs the tongue to be rolled in 台語 and Japanese, so the Taiwanese tended to neglect it when getting used to this new language, and pronounced /r/ as /l/ directly.

As a Taiwanese, I know the difference between /l/ and /r/, and I can prounce them correctly, but I don't take note of it most of the time, unless I am giving a speech or enunciating a sentence. So, if you are in Taiwan, there is no need to care about it in daily life actually. No one is gonna correct you

As for the pronunciation of 人, I think you can try to keep your tongue being rolled like pronouncing ''fur.''