QQSRX #3 Oaths 锵锵三人行

[Guest realmayo]

Episode #3.
Date:   2013 年12月5日
Title:   中国人说话无信誉 赌咒发誓如放屁  No one believes what Chinese people say, people swear oaths as easily as farting

 

Link to transcript http://phtv.ifeng.com/program/qqsrx/detail_2013_12/06/31861417_0.shtml
Link to full video http://v.ifeng.com/news/society/201312/01369ef2-d21a-4cc0-8ba9-09174cd41f98.shtml

Via youtube       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zcP_YsHGcQ

(but for me the recorded sound quality is a lot worse on youtube, a lot better on the Phoenix page)

 

 

Host: 窦文涛
Guests: 许子东and 梁文道

 

 

Any advice, corrections, improvements etc extremely welcome

[Guest realmayo]

Translation of first five mins

Blue = query, bold = in vocab

 

1              窦文涛:                锵锵三人行，你注意到现在真是进入老龄社会了，这个老人谁说不关心啊，现在很多媒体整版整版就在探讨老头老太太的问题，他能翻出是非来，比 方说最近就说四川达州蒋婆婆，年过七旬，这个事成了罗生门了，几个目击者有目击者见到老太太自己摔倒，三个小朋友还去扶她，结果老太太攥住了一个小朋友的 手不放，弄到医院说他撞的，然后老太太带着家里人就到三个小朋友家里去了，说给钱吧，医药费。

1              Wentao                You’ve noticed that now we’ve moved into an ageing society.  Who says we don’t pay attention to the elderly? Right now the media have got pages after pages of investigations into the issue of old men and women.  And they’ve uncovered some big scandals *1a*. For instance recently the old woman Jiang in Dazhou in Sichuan. In her 70s. It turned into Rashamon [the film], several eyewitnesses saw the old lady fall over on her own, three kids went to pick her up, and then the old lady grabbed onto the arm of one of the children and wouldn’t let go. Dragged him *1b* to the hospital and said he ran into her, then she went with relatives to the house of the three children, said give me money, for my medical bills.

 

[0’55”]

2              梁文道:                算是住上了。

2              Wendao              ??? *2*

 

3              窦文涛:                住两天，最后逼的没办法，有一户家长还真的当时就给了钱，但是可能越想越觉得冤的慌，就去报警了，就说敲诈勒索，现在似乎裁定的是老太太讹 人了，可是最新的消息，你相信不相信发毒誓呢，我觉得我要是用我父母生命发誓，那我绝对说的是真的，我这个人还是相信这种，但是老太太的父母不知道是不是 还健在，老太太现在发毒誓，说我要是骗人我死全家，老太太发这种毒誓。

3              Wentao                Two days in hospital. Then, because he didn’t have much choice *3a*, one of their parents did actually give her money. But maybe the more he thought about it the more he thought that he’d been fooled into *3b* it. So he went to report it to the police, said it was extortion. Now it looks like they’ve ruled that the women did cheat them. But the most recent news is, do you believe in swearing on someone’s life *3c*? I think if I swear something on my parents’ lives, what I say will definitely be true, me, I believe that kind of thing. But, and I don’t know if this woman’s parents are alive, the woman swore an oath, saying if she cheated anyone then  my whole family should die *3d*, she swore this kind of oath.

 

[1’37”]

4              许子东:                全家是连下面。

4              Zidong                By ‘her whole family’ you mean including younger generations *4*?

 

5              窦文涛:           对，连下面啊，老太太家儿子,老太太儿子也觉得冤，就说我相信我妈妈，但是确实没人作证，老太太自己说就是小孩把她撞倒的，粉碎性骨折，咱们看看这个照片，这就老婆婆，说我要是讹人我死全家，你看他家人就在后头，你再看看，这是三个小朋友和他们的家长。

5              Wentao                Yes, including the younger ones. The woman’s son, her son also thinks this is unfair, says I believe my mother. But no one testified, the woman herself said it was the child who knocked her over, gave her a multiple [comminuted] fracture. Let’s have a look at this photo, this is the woman, who said if I conned anyone I’ll kill my whole family. See her family behind her. Look at another one, this is the three children with their father.

 

[2’06”]

6              梁文道:                可是我刚才想讲，就他的儿媳妇他出来说了，他说他这个摔倒在家里头洗澡的时候摔倒了。

6              Wendao               But just now I wanted to say, her daughter-in-law came out and said that this fall took place in their home, she fell over while washing.   

 

7              窦文涛:                又出一情况？

7              Wentao                Yet another development

 

8              梁文道:                对啊，他儿媳妇这么讲的，正当她说我全家都死光的时候，不想被你连累，不想死光，别说把我算进去就出来讲了，跟记者说他自己摔的，所以现在 地方当局的那个裁决其实我觉得还是比较可靠的，而且还有一些无关的目击证人，那些目击证人是没有什么利益可言的在这件事上，可是我觉得有时候中国人发这种 毒誓你觉得能信吗，就包括我在买东西，有时候被骗或者什么，那些骗你的人也发那毒誓，那又怎么样。

8              Wendao               Yes,  her daughter-in-law was saying this, just as she was saying my whole family’s going to be wiped out, the daughter-in-law was saying I don’t want to be implicated, don’t want to be killed, ???? *8*, told journalists she fell down herself. So now I reckon the ruling by local authorities looks quite reliable. And there was also some third-party eyewitness testimony, this eyewitness hasn’t got any personal interest in this case. I think sometimes when Chinese people make these serious oaths are you able to believe them? And that includes when I’m shopping, sometimes I’m cheated or whatever, whoever’s cheating you also swear these kind of oaths, [some Cantonese here I think], same as this.

 

[3’00”]

9              窦文涛:                我们是在发誓的年代长大的，你很难有我的体会，我能把一个话说的向毛主席保证，你知道什么意思吗，向毛主席保证，现在向毛主席保证，那个时候我们说这个跟放屁似的，向毛主席保证。

9              Wentao                We grew up in an age of oaths. It’s hard for to know it like I do, I can say one thing: I swear it to Chairman Mao, you know what this means, swear it to Chairman Mao, now swear it to Chairman Mao, back then we spoke those words just like farting *9*, swear it to Chairman Mao.

 

10           许子东:                我们还小学里边少先队就要发誓，为共产主义事业奋斗终生。

10           Zidong                The Young Pioneers still swear oaths in our primary schools, that they’ll dedicate their lives to the Communist cause.

 

11           窦文涛:                这个不是发誓。

11           Wentao                This is still oath swearing?

 

12           梁文道:                这个当然是发誓，这还不叫发誓吗。

12           Wendao               Of course it is, you’re saying it doesn’t count?

 

[3’30”]

13           许子东:                当然这个发誓我们是真心的。

13           Zidong               Of course this oath is made sincerely.

 

14           窦文涛:                那是集体的发誓，我说的是小朋友之间诅咒发誓，你[要]说错了。

14           Wentao                That’s a collective oath, what I’m talking about is vows between children, *14*.

 

15           许子东:                你这个弹子打坏了打到洞里了。

15           Zidong              This marble is broken, or was thrown into a hole [?]

 

16           窦文涛:                说你把我玻璃球偷了，我没偷，向毛主席保证，但是要真说死全家，这种事我不知道你们，我还是挺当真的。

16           Wentao                Someone says you stole my marble, I didn’t steal it, I swear to Chairman Mao, but to really swear on the life of your family,  I don’t know about you but this, I’d take it really seriously.

 

17           许子东:                上次那个老虎的那个呢？那个农民说拍到老虎的那个。

17           Zidong     The last time that tiger, what was it, that thing where the farmer said he’d taken a photograph of a tiger

 

18           梁文道:                华南虎那个。

18           Wendao               That South China tiger

 

19           窦文涛:                周正龙。

19           Wentao                Zhou Zhenglong.

 

[4’00”]

20           许子东:                他不是也发毒誓吗我记得，然后另外一个人挑战他，好像两个人都发誓，我当时看了就说两个人必死一个。

20           Zidong               He swore an oath I remember didn’t he? Then someone else challenged him, I think both of them swore these oaths, I saw it at the time and said one of those two will have to die.

 

21           窦文涛:                但周正龙现在还在寻找，他出狱了，他还在秦岭大山里，天天他老婆说他坚信他见到过华南虎，他现在每天都去找。

21           Wentao                But Zhou Zhenglong is still looking, he’s out of jail, he’s still in the Qinling mountains, every day,  his wife says, he truly believes he has seen the South China tiger, now he looks for it every day.

 

[4’23”]

22           梁文道:           可是我觉得像你说发这种毒誓，一个人要是就这样子发一个毒誓，我反而觉得我不会相信他，你怎么能够拿你全家的生命死光这件事情来做誓呢，发誓这个东 西其实以前的人也会看人，看他发誓的品格，就你发这种誓的人本身就已经让你觉得这个人是有点问题或者不太恰当，但我不愿意太过指责这个老太太，我反而想讲 的是什么呢，这件事很多人又拿来当一个例子，因为同样的情况这不是第一回了，过去几年我们每隔一个月或者其实每个月都有好几宗这种案件，只不过这回搞大了 而已，要不然平常的话你到处都听到，比如说街上扶一个人，结果那个人诬告你回来，所以现在很多家长教小孩，说你在街上看到人摔倒了你不要随便乱扶。

22           Wendao               But I think this kind of swearing on someone’s life, if someone does that, I actually think I can’t trust him, how can you take the death of your whole family as something to swear on. All this swearing, in the past people would judge someone on the quality of their oaths *22*… someone making this kind of oath actually makes you think this person has some problem or something’s not quite right. But I don’t want to criticise this old lady too much, what I actually want to say, is lots of people are taking this thing up and using it as an example, because it’s not the first time there’s been something like this. In the past few years every other month or in fact every single month there’s lots of these kinds of cases, it’s just that people have made a big deal of this one, normally you hear about these things everywhere, for instance in the street you help someone get up, you end up falsely accused, so now lots of parents teach their children that if they see someone fall over outside don’t help them get up without thinking about it first.

 

[5’20”]

23           许子东:                最早是南京我记得。

23           Zidong                I remember the first one of those was in Nanjing.

 

24           梁文道:                对，深圳也有，彭宇案，现在有家长教孩子是这么教的，你在路上看到有老人摔倒了，你可以扶他，但是要先找到证人，文涛你看我扶了，是他摔的，最好还手机拍下这个过程，大家都说是人变坏了，比如说像人家说不是老人变坏，而是本来就坏。

24           Wendao               Yes, and another one in Shenzen …. yes there was the Peng Yu case …  and now you’ve got parents teaching their children like this, if you see an old person fall down in the street, you can help him, but first find a witness, Wentao look I’m helping him, he fell down himself, the best thing is to use your phone to take a photograph of all this. Everyone says that it’s people becoming bad, for example like with these people say it isn’t old people becoming bad, but they were bad all along.

 

25           窦文涛                  坏人变老了，这么一个。

25           Wentao                Bad people becoming old.

[Guest realmayo]

Queries

 

1a           他能翻出是非来 = they’ve uncovered some big scandals  ?

1b           弄到医院说他撞的 does 弄 here mean take, drag, make (come)?

2              算是住上了。Can’t work out what this means, either ‘does it count as staying in hospital’ or ‘how long did she spend in hospital’?

3a           逼的没办 = he didn’t have any choice?

3b           越想越觉得冤的慌. Unsure of grammar: how do 冤 and 慌 work together with 的 here?

3c            发毒誓 - 发誓 is to swear an oath, seems that adding the 毒 means you’re swearing on someone’s life?

3d           说我要是骗人我死全家 – from context I’m assuming 我死全家means I wish that my whole family dies, i.e. if I’m lying then let my whole family die?

4              全家是连下面 I translated as By ‘her whole family’ you mean including younger generations?  ?

8              别说把我算进去就出来讲了Completely puzzled here!

14           Sounds like he says 你要说错了。Transcript says 你别说错了。

22           以前的人也会看人，看他发誓的品格 = in the past people would judge someone on the quality of their oaths?

 

Also:

I’ve seen 社會資源 translated as social resources, but am not sure if this means things like social security, the ways the state can support its citizens, or if it’s more abstract?

 

嗑瓜子嗑出个臭虫来 – this sentence comes later, is it a specific expression? From what I can gather it means someone’s having a tough time.

 

穷山恶水出刁民 looks like another expression: bad guys emerge from (or are produced by)  ‘barren mountains and dangerous rivers’

[Guest realmayo]

Vocab

 

1              罗生门  Rashomen, Japanese film: Wikipedia says The film is known for a plot device which involves various characters providing alternative, self-serving and contradictory versions of the same incident.

1              目击者 mùjīzhě n. eyewitness

1              年过七旬 in his/her/your 70s

3              敲诈勒索 qiāozhàlèsuǒ f.e. extort; blackmail; extort and racketeer

5              粉碎性骨折 comminuted fracture (~ multiple fracture)

8              连累 liánlěi v. implicate; involve; get sb. into trouble

8              目击证人 eyewitness

10           奋斗终生 fèndòuzhōngshēng f.e. dedicate one's life to the struggle of (sth)

15           弹子  dànzi n. ①slingshot pellet ②marbles ③billiards

16           玻璃球 bōliqiú n. glass beads/balls = marble, surely?

19           http://www.chinasmack.com/2008/stories/zhou-insists-south-china-tiger-photos-real.html

22           品格 pǐngé n. ①one's character and morals ②quality and style (of literary/artistic works)

22           每隔 měigé adv. every other

 

the rest:

 

一窝蜂 yī wō fēng n. ①a swarm of bees ②a crowd #attr. Swarming

败坏 bàihuài v. ruin; corrupt; undermine

教化 jiàohuà v./n. enlighten people by education #n. culture

老有所养 lǎoyǒusuǒyǎng f.e. provision for the elderly

养老 yǎnglǎo v.o. ①provide for the aged   ②live out one's life in retirement

敲诈 qiāozhà v. extort; blackmail

穷山恶水 qióngshān'èshuǐ f.e. ①barren mountains and dangerous rivers ②poor, barren land

刁民 diāomín n. unruly people

横在 héng zài v.p. lie across

常态  chángtài n. normality; normal behavior/conditions   #attr. normal

军事化 jūnshìhuà v./n. militarize; place on a war footing

敌我矛盾 dí-wǒ máodùn n. contradictions between the enemy and us

稍许 shāoxǔ adv. slightly; rather

授权  shòuquán v.o. empower; authorize; license

打官司 dǎ guānsi v.o. ①sue ②squabble

颤巍巍 chànwēiwēi s.v. tottering; faltering

绝尘 juéchén v.o. move very fast

官司 guānsi n. 〈coll.〉 lawsuit

马拉松 mǎlāsōng n. 〈loan〉 marathon

测谎器 cèhuǎngqì n. polygraph; lie detector

衰老 shuāilǎo s.v. old; senile

萎缩 wěisuō v. ①wither; shrivel ②shrink; sag ③〈med.〉 atrophy

童言无忌 tóngyánwújì f.e. take no offense at a child's babble

抠  kōu v. ①dig/pick out ②carve; cut ③delve into; study meticulously ④lift one's garment #s.v. stingy; miserly

脑溢血 nǎoyìxuè n. 〈med.〉 cerebral hemorrhage

愣说 lèngshuō v. 〈coll.〉 insist; say flatly

介入  jièrù v. intervene; interpose; get involved

设身处地 shèshēnchǔdì f.e. put oneself in sb. else's position

老眼昏花 lǎoyǎnhūnhuā f.e. blurred vision of an old person

模拟 mónǐ v. imitate; simulate #n. simulation

听觉 tīngjué n. 〈phys.〉 sense of hearing; auditory sense

纤毛  xiānmáo n. 〈bio.〉 cilium

失聪 shīcōng v.o. lose one's hearing

昏昏沉沉 hūnhūnchénchén r.f. drowsy; not fully conscious

由来已久 yóuláiyǐjiǔ f.e. be of long standing

温饱 wēnbǎo attr./n. be warmly dressed and well-fed

淫欲 yínyù n. lust

种族侵袭 = racial attacks(?)

误点 wùdiǎn v.o. be late; be behind schedule

霸占 bàzhàn v. forcibly occupy; seize

趁虚而入 chènxū'érrù v.p. avail oneself of the opportunity to go in

[Ruben von Zwack]

The audio quality of the Youtube vids could indeed be better, I noticed that too

[skylee]

8              别说把我算进去就出来讲了Completely puzzled here!

 

The old woman swore on the lives of her whole family.  The daughter-in-law did not want to be cursed, so she said "don't consider me a part of this (scam)", and stepped forward and told the truth.  The 我 here refers to the daughter-in-law.

[Guest realmayo]

Ah, I see, thanks Skylee!

[roddy]

Nobody attempting the other questions? I forgot my earphones, but I'll try and get to them before the weekend. Unless, y'know, someone else....

[Ruben von Zwack]

I can't possibly help - maybe in a year's time   - but I was just watching this same episode, so thank you very much, realmayo!

[simplet]

Ok let me try, here is my take :

 

1a           他能翻出是非来 = they’ve uncovered some big scandals  ?

 

I think he means that some old people are loosing their ability to discern right and wrong (是非), or are taking one for the other (颠倒是非)

 

1b           弄到医院说他撞的 does 弄 here mean take, drag, make (come)?

 

I think 弄 here simply means something like the old lady made such a scene that she managed to get the children to the hospital with her. I don't think 弄 specifically means "grab" here, the grabbing is just part of the whole circus.

 

2              算是住上了。Can’t work out what this means, either ‘does it count as staying in hospital’ or ‘how long did she spend in hospital’?

 

It's probably something like ; "so she was admitted to the hospital"? Meaning her injuries were serious enough for her to stay there for a while;

 

3a           逼的没办 = he didn’t have any choice?

 

I think it's something like what you said, with the idea that the old lady put so much pressure on the guy that he didn't know what to do at the end.

 

3b           越想越觉得冤的慌. Unsure of grammar: how do 冤 and 慌 work together with 的 here?

 

Here it probably means something like "After thinking about it for a while, he felt so hard done that he went crazy about it". It's not the right "de" in the transcript but that's probably a typing error, should be 得

 

3c            发毒誓 - 发誓 is to swear an oath, seems that adding the 毒 means you’re swearing on someone’s life?

 

Something like that yes.

 

3d           说我要是骗人我死全家 – from context I’m assuming 我死全家means I wish that my whole family dies, i.e. if I’m lying then let my whole family die?

 

yep, agree

 

4              全家是连下面 I translated as By ‘her whole family’ you mean including younger generations?  ?

 

yes

 

8              别说把我算进去就出来讲了Completely puzzled here!

 

Like Skylee said, something like "don't include me in your schemes and then talk about it to everyone"

 

14           Sounds like he says 你要说错了。Transcript says 你别说错了。

 

I hear 要 too, I think it's roughly the same meaning so just a typing mistake

 

22           以前的人也会看人，看他发誓的品格 = in the past people would judge someone on the quality of their oaths?

 

I think it means judge them on the way they decide to use oaths. Like if someone is going everywhere swearing on his whole family for any little thing, it puts his character into question.

[Guest realmayo]

Happy to hear it was helpful RvZ!

 

Simplet, thanks very much for your help there 

[roddy]

Ok, my contribution:

 

他能翻出是非来 - I think it's along the lines of, the media have pages and pages of coverage [because old people] can also give rise to scandal / controversy
结果老太太攥住了一个小朋友的 手不放，弄到医院说他撞的 - so she basically dragged the kid to the hospital - not the bit immediately before where she's not letting go. 
算是住上了 - so she got admitted (to hospital)
最后逼的没办法 - so he was hassled, forced, to pay
冤得慌 - 得慌 is used as an intensifier with off the top of my head, 累，饿， 憋, I guess to mean to the extent that you're flustered, can't sit still, have to do something

 

Didn't have anything to add to the others - good stuff as always, and great to see simplet also weighing in.