Are intensive programs like IUP/CET worth the money?

[Solarin]

So I'm trying to decide how to best spend a semester in China, I guess my two options are spend around 10 grand on an intensive language program like CET, or directly enroll into a Chinese university. I know the language instruction in these programs is top notch, but being with other foreign students 24/7 and not having a lot of free time makes me worried about true immersion.

Basically I was just hoping people here would have experiences with either Chinese universities or intensive programs, and what you guys thought about either. 

 

Thanks!

[OneEye]

I can't imagine a program being worth that much money for such a short period of time, but that's just me. I thought about going to ICLP (which is about $11,000 per year) last year, but I'm really glad I didn't. I have no doubt that it would have been great for my Chinese, but I've also discovered that I can come close to replicating their results through simply working hard. I spent a decent amount of time trying to find out about their program and emulate it as much as possible while I studied at the MTC (and I did a lot of additional studying on the side).

 

There's a noticeable difference between my Chinese and that of my friends who recently finished a year at ICLP though. They're great with speaking in more formal registers, whereas I'm not. I understand it of course, and can write it reasonably well, but am not that comfortable using it in speech. On the other hand though, my everyday speech tends to be more natural-sounding than theirs, because they have a tendency to speak in too high a register. They can also tend to have a difficult time understanding casual speech and slang because they've spent so much time listening to their recordings for class (made by teachers and professional voice actors) and not enough time interacting with people outside their classrooms.

 

Both of those problems can be remedied, of course. When I decide it's time to work on using the more formal registers of the language, I can. If they stick around in Taiwan (or move to China) and get out, talk to people, watch TV and movies, listen to the radio, pay attention, and mimic, their deficiencies will also be remedied. The difference is that I'm $10,000 ahead of where I would have been had I gone to ICLP.

 

The catch is, not everyone has the discipline to work as hard as you'd need to without the pressure that a learning environment like ICLP provides (including myself a lot of times). If that's you, then you have to decide whether that kind of pressure is worth $10,000 or if you'll make do with what you get by working as hard as you can make yourself and be glad that you're $10,000 ahead. For me, I was glad to be $10,000 ahead. For others, it may be worth the money.

 

Of course, if you can get a scholarship, then the point is moot and you should probably go.

 

If you're wondering about how it turned out for me, after 18 months of living in Taiwan (15 of which I spent at the MTC), I started working as a freelance translator and got accepted to do an MA in one of the top Chinese literature departments in Taiwan. When I first came here, I was placed into Level 2 at the MTC, which I think is about like a second-year textbook in the US. I don't say that to brag, but to hopefully give you a goal to beat, because I know that if I hadn't gone through periods of immense slacking off (story of my life), I could have gotten even further in the language by now.

 

Finally, let me recommend that you spend longer than a semester in China if possible. If that's not possible at this time, then later. Once upon a time, khatzumoto of AJATT fame quoted me saying something along the lines of "Don't come to Taiwan for a year, because you'll only leave with half-baked Chinese. Come for at least two." Now that I've been here for 2.5, I might extend that number a bit more. 2 years of hard, smart work can get you to a decent professional level, but nowhere near an ILR 4 or 5. At that point, you'll know enough to realize just how far you have left to go.

 

Anyway, it's late and I'm rambling. Hopefully this was helpful.

[Solarin]

Wow thanks for the detailed post, it was very helpful! Your other post about studying with movies is also very helpful, thanks for the link.

 

Everything you said makes perfect sense. To clarify, I'm a college junior and I've been studying Mandarin for a while already and have already studied in China, for a summer intensive program. My ACTFL level is Advanced-Low, not sure how that translates to ILR but definitely a long way away from a 3... anyway the semester won't be my last time in China, I do intend to study for a full year later on. 

 

Thanks again!

[eshton]

I don't know much about intensive courses (did my chinese in a chinese uni) but I have to agree with OneEye on real life interaction. Intensive courses seem to emphasize characters which (at least I think) can be done on your own. Having classes with a bunch of other foreigners doesn't exactly help either as most of the time you'll switch to english. That said, I don't think it takes as much discipline especially if you've learnt the basics, all you really need is interaction.

[roddy]

Under the circumstances - I'd say do something a bit more relaxed for this semester. Use your free time to enjoy China, get out there and enjoy the rough and tumble of it, and try and develop some decent, disciplined, self-study habits. That'll stand you in good stead, and you'll still have the option of coughing up for the intensive tuition later on.

 

Also, while it's true as OneEye says that these programs will focus on the more formal side of things, this is intentional and for good reason. You're unlikely to be dropping that wad of cash unless you want to be using Chinese professionally, which means being able to talk the talk. From IUP:

IUP's mission is to raise students' Chinese language proficiency to a level at which they can function independently in professional or academic careers. Recent IUP graduates who have chosen to pursue careers in China have proven that their IUP-acquired linguistic skills have enabled them to function successfully in such areas as business consulting, management, public relations, law, education and journalism.

 

Is that you?