Chinese Mythology And Taoism, Anyone?

[Lizard]

I am writing a novel and it needs have elements from the Chinese mythology and social structure. Can some local Chinese please help me with this?

A number of questions would follow, but I think I should begin with the primary ones.

1- What/who is a dragon? What does one mean when they add a Long to their baby's name?

2- Is there any animal in Chinese mythology which can sense ghosts/spirits etc? A parallel of the cat in the western mythology, that is.

3- What is the Way? How do you follow it? How do you stray from it?

There are many other questions which I would ask, after I get the answers to these. Thanks.

[Shelley]

These are big questions,meaning they have not got simple answers (especially question no 3, people devote their entire lives to answer these things), have you tried other sources like wikipedia.

 

I thought the first rule of writing was to write about what you know.

 

Sounds like you need to learn more than you realize.

 

Good luck

[Lizard]

I can handle the spirituality part I think. It is a novel, not a religious guide cool, so little generalisations here and there will do.

The 2nd question is the one that is the major issue right now. I think any local Chinese should be able to answer that. I am waiting for it.

If someone can put some light on the first query, I would be extra grateful.

[abcdefg]

1- What/who is a dragon? What does one mean when they add a Long to their baby's name?

The most important point about dragons in Chinese legend is that they are auspicious and are usually viewed in a good or positive light. They play a markedly different role from the dragons of Western legend. In China, St. George does not need to slay the dragon.

 

Second dragon point that might or might not be useful. They are long, much like snakes with feet, instead of being big around the middle like western dragons, who often appear to be modeled after dinosaurs.

 

(Disclaimer: I am not Chinese.)

[abcdefg]

3- What is the Way? How do you follow it? How do you stray from it?

One could write a long essay or book in answer to this.

 

But this short video might be of some interest as a starting point. It was introduced as optional auxiliary material for a China History course I'm taking.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdbbdVWIiKo

[Lizard]

Many thanks sir. This will be much helpful.

I am waiting for the middle one yet. Anyone ...

[scottt]

Re: 2- Is there any animal in Chinese mythology which can sense ghosts/spirits etc?...
  Dog !
  Dog can sense the ghost/spirit is approaching... especailly on country side.
  The newly dead body lie on his/her own country _yard (waiting for a lucky hours to bring to the tomb)
  This dead (became "spirit") will return home to see his/her families within the fisrt 7 days after his/her death. 
   When the Spirit is approaching, the dogs will make alarm, They will moaning with very low tone.
   Normaly, dogs is about to bite people after such warings sounds.  (More serious than barking)
   So the dead's relatives know the dead had returned from the dogs' strange "moaning". 
   On the Lunar July-August, the Hell's Gate Opening month,  many ghosts "take leaves" and make more accidents than other months.  And the dogs' moanings were took for granted by the countryman...
   Hope you can catch my meanings.
       Scott  (at Taiwan) 

 

[陳德聰]

Answering OP's question 2:

 

There are probably a variety of animals that can sense ghosts. I can only think of one off the top of my head.

 

Dogs are supposed to be able to sense/see spirits/ghosts/demons. They were often used to sniff out fox demons and whatever else, though they can still be fooled.
 

---

Giving my opinion on cultural appropriation in novels:

 

This is one of the singlemost easy ways to get me to think a book is really poor quality. There is a difference between adaptation and appropriation, and using unresearched information to back what are likely important parts of your narrative is just bad writing. If your genre is directed at people who don't know anything about Chinese culture, then I'm sure you will still have an audience. I just think that it's ethically suspect to exploit another culture for profit without actually telling their story at all.

 

I read a book written by Guy Gavriel Kay after he spent a good deal of time in China presumably researching the An Lushan Rebellion that was a somewhat hokey adaptation of an already super romanticized history. This guy is a great writer, and the book was a really cool fantasy story that told a Chinese story, it just wasn't as phenomenal as the stories he has written where he completely fabricates the realms he writes about.

If you need to fantasy up your novel, why is it that superficial Chinese cultural aspects are the exotic mysticism gets you going? When I was in highschool, I thoroughly enjoyed reading "samurai" and "ninja" fiction. But looking back, it was all super trashy nonsense.

[Lizard]

Thank you Scott for your detailed reply. It will be very useful.

陳德聰, this is not a Chinese story. It has Chinese characters and some tidbits of mythology, but the main protagonist/hero is not Chinese. This is no attempt to sell fiction with a 'Chinese Mythology' stamp.

Just for the sake of some elaboration, the protagonist gets a curse of eternal life. After realising the dark side of this apparent blessing, he tries to move away from his social circle. Living in northern india, he aimlessly heads further north into Tibet and then into China proper. There an antagonist is waiting for him. He has learned that Cursed Dragon will enter the Celestial Empire during the next 5 years. He tries to locate him/it with an animal which can sense abnormalities and powerful spirits. After a confrontation that leaves the protagonist nearly dead, he flees to Japan where new perils await.

Should I use dog as the animal that senses his presence?

[Lizard]

Now to the next question.

Does Taoism also have monks like Buddhism? If yes, what is the difference (in appearance and general behaviour/attitude, not beliefs) between a Taoist and a Buddhist monk?

[mouse]

 

Does Taoism also have monks like Buddhism? If yes, what is the difference (in appearance and general behaviour/attitude, not beliefs) between a Taoist and a Buddhist monk?

 

Kind of, although the usual English translation is "priest". To answer the second part of your question, let me ask you to imagine answering the same question, but about Christianity instead. And imagine you're answering someone with hardly any cultural familiarity or background knowledge of Christianity at all. You'd have to talk about the differences between regions, between time periods, between denominations, and the fact that there isn't necessarily one single generic outfit that even one person would always wear. After outlining this complexity for them, you would probably advise them to read a book - make that several books - if they're really interested.

[Lizard]

I completely understand and agree with you.

I am merely asking about the general attitude and outfits difference (if any) and not the in detail underlying principal differences between the two philosophies.

Lets say I am asked to tell the general difference between christian and muslim monks to someone who hardly has any social insight. My reply would be thus:

Christian monks tend to attain spiritual purity by quitting the world while Muslim monks try to find more time for thought and insight. As such, Christian monks see the world as a menace to self improvement while Muslim monks see it as a distraction, but not a menace. Hence while you can expect to see many married muslims who get into monkship temporarily to improve themselves, christians generally are more black and white about the matter.

Can I expect to find an explanation like that?

[陳德聰]

The watered down version:

 

Yes, use a dog. But you can make the dog less lame by making it half wolf or fox or something like that.

Taoist priests like balance and harmony between yin and yang and think you can live longer by sleeping with 90+ virgins. Google image the following word: 道士

Buddhist monks think the world is an illusion and shun desire. Google image the following word: 僧人

Generally, both Taoist priests and Buddhist monks will walk around participating in folklore, sometimes side-by-side giving hilarious commentary.

[Lizard]

Thanks 陳德聰

Now I think I know exactly what type of creature I should introduce.

Now moving onwards to the next question, who makes prophecies (future tellings) in Taoism? I mean, do they make prophecies by divine revelation (as in Islam, Christianity and Judaism) or make predictions based on calculations about universal principles of conflict and the zodiac cycle?

[Lu]

Lizard, while it's commendable that you try to educate yourself on what you're planning to write, it would help if you let us know what you yourself already have done to find the answer. You can start by wikipedia'ing Daoism, Buddhism and dragons, for example.

 

Taoism (Daoism) in particular is a hugely complicated and many-layered thing. Two Daoist priests can easily have opposite ideas on what the Way is and how to attain it. Some sleep with 90 virgins, some move to a mountain top and are never heard from again, and both approaches (and many in between) are typical, so it's really hard to get a simple answer to your question. It helps a lot if you first read up a bit and then come back with more specific questions.

 

Or you can just leave the background for what it is and use nothing but your imagination. To please people who have some solid knowledge of things Chinese, you need to research a lot indeed. Just making it up as needed can still result in an entertaining book.

[renzhe]

Lizard, I suggest you read a Chinese book, perhaps something from a mystical adventure genre like Wuxia. You're a writer, you must read a lot, and one book like this would offer more answers than any of us can muster. Ultimately, all we are offering are our own interpretations.

There are few Taoist monks around today, it's hard to say what they are like. But both Buddhist monks and Taoist priests are very popular figures in Chinese folklore and Chinese literature. That's why reading something would be so useful. Even watching a movie (but books are better). There are many translations of Louis Cha's novels, and especially of Chinese classics like Journey to the West and Water Margin -- both have plenty of monks in them, and you would learn a whole deal about how Chinese tradition treats both.

In general, Buddhist monks are usually portrayed as wise, calm, modest, strict, somewhat boring, shunning worldly pleasures for inner cleanliness. Taoist monks are more extravagant characters, seeking enlightenment by any means necessary, they are often rash, and usually have some sort of magical properties (seeking eternal life is a common theme). If there is a Taoist monk in a book, they are bound to be my favourite character, which is why I suggest you read a real book, and then use one of the characters as a basis for your character.

[Lizard]

Ok, here is what I have read and learnt so far:

I have read a book about some of the most prominent Taoist figures (Laoh Zhu being the one who inspired me the most) and excerpts from Tao Te Ching.

The Way can only be learnt and felt. You cannot define it in words or strictly outline it. It is something like defining yourself. You can only sense yourself and feel your existence, but cannot explain it. You have a name, family lineage, personality and life history, but these are only aspects of yourself, not the essence of your existence. Someone with everything similar to you will still not be you. That is how you explain The Way. It is the soul and essence of the universe. Trying to explain it in words is like trying to tell a blind man what is the meaning of 'color'.

Dragons have two meanings. One, physical flying beasts which nobody in modern times has seen. Second, a type of character. To call someone a dragon is to declare them as of a certain character type. This also holds true for fighting schools where dragon fist is a certain type of fighting strategy and form.

Now for the last question of this thread:

Can you guys answer from time to time little queries about chinese culture and lifestyle? That is, pertaining to the previous century. That's all. Thanks.

[abcdefg]

Feels like we are being played and used, and in a condescending tone. I don't like it. Am not willing to help.

 

Unsubscribe this thread.

[Lizard]

Played and used? How?

Reading a book does not also teach you what the book really 'means'. I did not know whether what I had collected from that book is right or not, this is why I decided to get some first hand views from the people who actually live there and know it not by books, but practical experience.

Is there any cheating or fooling in it?

My apologies if anyone of you felt offended/fooled.

[Yorin]

The problem is, for example, if all you've learned after reading and informing yourself about dragons is ...

 

 

Dragons have two meanings. One, physical flying beasts which nobody in modern times has seen. Second, a type of character. To call someone a dragon is to declare them as of a certain character type. This also holds true for fighting schools where dragon fist is a certain type of fighting strategy and form.

 

... then you just really don't seem to care about doing any substantial research for yourself.

 

Why don't you want to go and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_dragon , where you'll find tons of information on this subject? Why don't you come back after that and ask questions about some finer details that might need more explanation, questions that show what you've done so far, instead of questions like "What is a dragon?". You say you want to ask people with practical experience. Don't you think the information in Wikipedia is written or corrected by people who have practical experience? How can you as a writer have such a disregard for the passing on and aquiring of knowledge in the form of writings?

 

You've got to understand that if you're asking the people here to help you, you're expecting them to invest their free time for you. You've got to give them the feeling that it's worth the effort.