Chinese Mythology And Taoism, Anyone?

[gato]

Right, if I asked on a forum about how to perform heart surgery but haven't even read the Wikipedia page on heart surgery (because I want to hear from those with practical experience), maybe others won't take me so seriously. If you don't show some effort, why should others?

And it is a bit ironic for someone who wants to write a book to dismiss books.

[abcdefg]

Another writer came here a year of so ago seeking help and got a lot of discussion and ideas. 

 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/38153-asian-stereotypes-and-racism-in-novels/

 

I think two thing bother me this time. The first is what seems to be the desire for something superficial and quick, acquired on the cheap, with the investment of only minimum effort.

 

The second thing is that the tone of the requests seem condescending. "OK, boys and girls, now let's see if you can play nice and help me with the second question without getting your undies all in a twist."

 

Perhaps I'm wrong and am being overly negative.

[Lizard]

Well?

I did read (and that's 6 months ago) the wikipedia about the asian dragons (as opposed to the western perspective) and I did read several other websites (of which I found www.travelchinaguide.com/intro/social_customs/dragon_lion.htm the most interesting).

I never expected or implied that books are useless or that one should not do a research on the subject before asking questions. If I transmit this idea with the 'tone' of my posts, I apologise. It is my habit to talk directly about the subject. I do not like to write 'I have read xyz books on the subject and abc websites and consulted M and N authors about it and now I am here to discuss it'. Instead I simply write what I am seeking.

What I am asking is not lengthy lectures, just whether the information at wikipedia is exhaustive and final about the subject or there is more to it.

For example the page about chinese mythology is filled with snake-people and spirits, and nowhere did I find that amongst all animals dogs have the keenest ability to sense spirits, as stated here on this topic.

I have hardly written anything in the novel for 3 months . If I were seeking for quick, short answers I would hardly have stopped for issues like the dragon and monks when they only appear in 3 out of 19 chapters.

[abcdefg]

Looks like I probably judged you too harshly. Apologies for that. Hope some of us can be of help.

[Lizard]

Its ok. I did not mind People generally have less patience these days.

The main issue with wikipedia information is that either it is too specific and precise, or too general and stereotypical. In a novel you need something of the middle grounds: something which the reader can relate to, and still find it interesting and informatic.

For example:

"Eternal life." Sho smiled. "Which animal lives the longest?"

Zhong thought for a moment and replied, "Turtles".

The monk resumed his work. "Do you believe turtles live the longest among all?"

"Yes."

"Would it be satisfactory for you to live as long as a turtle?"

Zhong considered the idea for a while and then agreed. "Yes. How can I achieve that?"

The old Taoist smiled again. "You ask questions of which you already know the answers. Use a turtle to live as long as a turtle."

"Use a turtle??" Zhong was confused. "Should I eat turtles?" He knew several people who ate turtles. In some parts they were even considered a delicacy. He had never heard of any one-hundred-and-fifty years old turtle-eater however.

Sho halted for a moment. "Do not eat a turtle. Watch a turtle. Study a turtle. Be a turtle. When you have become a turtle, you will live as long as turtles live. Such is the way of The Way."

As you can see here, the longevity of turtles has been utilised with the philosophy of Taoism to create an interesting, yet meaningful conversation. I am endeavoring to know more about the dragons.

[Lu]

 

I never expected or implied that books are useless or that one should not do a research on the subject before asking questions. If I transmit this idea with the 'tone' of my posts, I apologise. It is my habit to talk directly about the subject. I do not like to write 'I have read xyz books on the subject and abc websites and consulted M and N authors about it and now I am here to discuss it'. Instead I simply write what I am seeking.

I suggest that on this forum, you start doing this anyway, even if it's not your habit. It shows that 1) you've already made an effort and are not just using the forums as a quick shortcut, and 2) tells us what you already know and we therefore don't need to suggest anymore.

 

And posting a paragraph of your work is a good move, it shows the people answering that their suggestions are being put to good use, which is always a nice feeling. As to that paragraph, may I suggest you change the spelling of that name to Shou? 'Sho' is not a valid word in any transcription system I'm familiar with. Incidentally, the word for 'eternal life' is 寿, pronounced shou, which is perhaps what you were going for?

[Lizard]

Very well then.

I have studied one book and several websites about Taoism. I have no questions about the sole philosophy. I do, however, seek some specifics. I would state them accordingly.

About dragons, I am familiar with the generalised perspective: wisdom, longevity, power, sometimes also make prophecies. Generally benevolent, but like to stay away from the hubbub and rush of humans etc. I was seeking something 'catchy' about them, but apparently this is all there is about it.

Oh, and I did not mean Shou means eternal life. I was just trying to find an old-fashioned Taoism related chinese name for a Taoist monk of early 20th century.

btw what is the (in English letters) chinese word (or phrase) for:

balance of yin and yang

imbalance of yin and yang

lizard

The Way

[abcdefg]

You probably already know this, but in Taoist mythology, tortoise is a son of dragon. Might come in handy if you ever want to tie the two together.

-------------------

I think Dao is the English word for The Way.

[Lizard]

You mean the 9 sons of the dragon? Turtle is the eldest as far as I can recall.

It is I think cultural Chinese mythology, not religious Taoist mythology. I might be wrong thougs.

[abcdefg]

You mean the 9 sons of the dragon? Turtle is the eldest as far as I can recall.

Yes, that's what I meant.

 

Even though the dragon probably originated in earlier times, I believe it was absorbed into the stable of mythical beasts discussed and propagated by Taoist priests.

[abcdefg]

Found some dragon lore here, which might be worth "mining" for useable bits:

 

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/ssu-ling.shtml

http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/dragon.shtml

[Lizard]

Reading them.

And they are terribly great!

Thanks for the share.

Any mores?

[scottt]

Reply to # 27
btw what is the (in English letters) chinese word (or phrase) for:
balance of yin and yang
imbalance of yin and yang
lizard
The Way
----------------------------------
(1) balance of yin and yang = 陰陽調和 (yin-yang-tiau-he)
(2) imbalance of yin and yang = 陰陽失調
(3) lizard =  蜥蜴  ( see-yee )  
(4) the way = 道  ( = Tao )

[Lizard]

Finished reading the links. They were information goldmines. Thanks for the share.

And the translations too, scottt.

Should I create another thread for questions involving chinese mannerisms and etiquette, or post them here in this thread?

[abcdefg]

Lizard, for some "juicy" Daoist material that might lend itself to use in a novel, Google "Celestial Master Daoism" and "Elixir Daoism." Also have a look at "Maoshan Revelations" and "Supreme Purity Daoism" for additional "offbeat" stuff. 

 

There are two main parts to a study of Daoism, from what I've learned. One is the old, meaning B.C., such as the teachings of Laozi and Zhuangzi. There there is a later resurgence that differs greatly in content from those earlier roots, taking place during China's Middle Ages, several hundred years A.D.

 

Celestial Master Daosim has to do, among other things, with the sexual practices advocated by later Daoist masters as a path to Immortality. Some of this inspired Chairman Mao's notorious late-life bedroom antics.

 

Elixir and Elixir Cults were interesting because they allegedly allowed the consumer of the elixir to achieve immortality, but the process required his death. An odd contract had to be struck; one which required unflinching belief in the ultimate goal.

 

Along the way, lots of Alchemy gets mixed in, with an emphasis on transmuting base metals into gold. The central idea is to speed up the process, which ordinarily would take exactly 4,320 years, enabling it instead to be completed in one year.

 

The desire for gold was not for its role in wealth, but as an aid to achieving immortality. Gold was the only "immortal" metal, and since it embodied a perfect balance between yin and yang, it did not decay or change over time.

 

Should hasten to add that I don't really have an in-depth knowledge of this subject, but am taking a China History course in which Daoism has recently been featured.

[Lizard]

I have read Tao Te Ching and found it very intriguing. I believe it is based on Laozi's teachings to a man (probably a soldier) who went to meet him in his forest abode.

I was more fascinated by Lieh Tzu's teachings, however. He appears to be a true saint.

I have read the accounts of some emperor or feudal enquiring the sexual practices and things like jade gate and baby palace and all that. I found that all disgusting.

Talking about immortality, wasn't sulphur a major constituent of the formulas for eternal life combinations in chinese traditional mixtures?

What would be some some the old fashioned names for chinese characters? Names which you could expect to find a couple centuries ago, but not now?

[imron]

wasn't sulphur a major constituent of the formulas for eternal life combinations in chinese traditional mixtures?

Quite humourously, mercury was apparently one such common constituent, which if anything hastened death rather than the other way around.

[abcdefg]

Qin Shi Huangdi 秦始皇帝 succumbed to mercury in the course of his quest for immortality.

 

Followers of the various Daoist Elixir Cults in the Middle Ages knew that they would die from ingesting these special compounds. It didn't slip up on them; nor was it an undesired side effect. They achieved immortality in the process, if all was done properly, of shuffling off this mortal coil. 

 

I have read the accounts of some emperor or feudal enquiring the sexual practices and things like jade gate and baby palace and all that. I found that all disgusting.

A harsh judgement. Latter day Daoism may not be what you think it is.

[Lizard]

Not judging anyone/anything. Just saying that like most religions/philosophies, Taoism appears to have lost its true philosophical spirit as its followers strayed from The Way. I did not state or imply that sexual concepts introduced in the name of Taoism later are bad or anything. I just stated that they had no appeal for me. Maybe they hold a huge practical value in reality. I don't know. It's just that I did not quite find it in harmony with the original Taoist philosophy and lifestyle.