How provincial has your China experience been?

[imron]

often idealize the situation of the rural poor

It's not just the *rural* poor either.  See all the ruckus about hutongs being torn down in Beijing and other major cities.  It's a shame to lose such buildings, and I hope *some* of them can be preserved, and I also miss that older, more laid back Beijing (and I'm only talking about 15 or so years here), but to the people living in them, sleeping 2-3 to a room, with inadequate heating/cooling and sharing 1 toilet between 10 families, well I'm not going to begrudge them a better standard of living just to keep hutong neighbourhoods around as a sort of living zoo for tourists to come and see how quaint China is.

 

 

 

that could really be teased out into a whole paper

It definitely could, and I'm sure we've had discussions on the forums before about similar things (hutong neighbourhoods as zoos) though I can't find the threads at the moment.

[Alex_Hart]

Good point, imron! I think the area can definitely be expanded beyond the rural poor to numerous groups, e.g. minority groups. Recall reading an article about people setting yurts up at the side of the road to charge people to take photos of them in their full 'ethnic' costume, then returning home to throw on some jeans. 

 

Would be interesting to see the potential (and the will) to renovate the hutong and similar architectural beauties. Guess would be too expensive. 

[imron]

There's definitely the will and potential to renovate some of the hutongs, and that's happened already in several trendy areas, but given the population pressure you can't really have everyone living in hutongs unless you want Beijing to take up most of Hebei province.

 

That means they pretty much need to build up, and unfortunately that means areas with single story dwellings don't have a very bright future.

[abcdefg]

Perhaps cell phones will mark the end of mankind, as we slowly lose any ability to communicate with each other and rely solely on virtual avatars?

 

What a dystopian prospect, Alex.

 

Last spring I went with 3 or 4 friends into the tea mountains of South Yunnan to check out the new crop of Pu'er tea. In the evening we would sit around after supper in one or another small village, joke, chat smoke and drink; sometimes even sing. Seemed so normal, albeit kind of retro. Kind of a healthy "around the campfire" atmosphere.

 

Once back in Kunming I had dinner with the same friends one night soon after. We shared a table sipping tea and eating snacks, but each person was on his or her own phone, sending out WeChat group messages with photos to friends, including to people at the same table.

 

We all chuckled about how it was the "new reality." Here we were face to face, but still interacting electronically.

[stapler]

 

I haven't noticed the hostility you mention, but have been asked marriage questions every now and then. Never, however, as the opener for a conversation. Perhaps they think it would not be polite because I'm older now; beyond prime "marriage age." But courtesy never seems to prevent other odd opening questions like, "How much did your shoes cost?"

 

Maybe it was just a once off. But maybe it's just a growing trend. Relevant:

 

"China is marking National Security Education Day with a poster warning young female government workers about dating handsome foreigners, who could turn out to have secret agendas."

 

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/mandarin/en/article/2016/04/21/china-warns-women-foreign-spies-comic-titled-dangerous-love

 

 

Agree entirely with your comment about the train being a great place to strike up conversations and get to know strangers a bit more than you might in a bus or a restaurant where the contact is for a shorter duration. But the biggest enemy of casual conversation, in my opinion, is the way everyone constantly keeps their nose buried in their mobile phone here. The 手机 disease.

 

I think the heavy use of phones is often why I find myself talking to people over 30 or little children, but rarely people around 10-25, in China. I actually found the level of phone "concentration" in China much higher than here in Australia. What do I mean by "concentration"? Now in both countries everyone walks around glued to their phone. But even here I notice East Asians in general REALLY stay glued to their phones. What do I mean by this? Whenever I go to restaurants everyone else - even if they are in the 10-25 age bracket - generally put their phones away to talk/hang out with their friends. A table with Korean or Chinese of the same age will all sit there not talking to each other, staring at their phones (after taking a selfie next to their food - with a big smile before going back to frowning). Walking on the street they always seem to walk very slowly and often crashing into other people, whilst other people on the phones look up/around to navigate foot traffic.

 

Now all this is just my own perception, but I can't help but feel it's related to a broader sense of pressure and isolation that forced all the Japanese kids to start walking around with facemasks on just to try and hide in their own world. Again, just speculation.

 

 

I think this is a pretty loaded sentence that could really be teased out into a whole paper

 

Well that's what I wanted to explicitly point out. When I showed my neighbours the photos and told them the old houses were being torn down they had this huge look of horror on their faces like some kind of cultural vandalism was going on. Immediately I felt a bit uncomfortable realising that they were engaging in some kind of colonialist fantasy where they hope Chinese villagers keep living like a museum.

 

But it's not just foreigners that partake in this. Lots of city dwelling Chinese have this feeling too (though often they're completed repulsed by all things rural).

[Demonic_Duck]

Maybe it was just a once off. But maybe it's just a growing trend. Relevant:

 

"China is marking National Security Education Day with a poster warning young female government workers about dating handsome foreigners, who could turn out to have secret agendas."

 

http://www.sbs.com.a...-dangerous-love

I think you're misreading the signals. Plenty of people ask me if I plan to marry a local, but it's more out of interest for my long-term plans than anything else. If they wanted to find out if you were a playboy, they'd ask you about sex, not marriage. Well, they wouldn't, because they're Chinese and it's super taboo. But they still wouldn't ask you about marriage.

 

Nice find with the comic, though!  

[Guest realmayo]

I agree with DD, I've had plenty of random people, taxi drivers etc, men & women, explain to me what a good idea it would be to get a Chinese wife, suggest where we should then buy an apartment, how to spend our time back and forth between the two different countries and so on.

[stapler]

Right. I don't think any of that is unusual (being asked about marriage). I just found it usual that the first question was "why are you in China? are you trying to find a Chinese girlfriend?". From the manner they were speaking I thought it was a bit hostile. That's all.

[somethingfunny]

Getting married is a much bigger deal to Chinese people and it is a favourite conversation topic amongst friends and strangers.  Sure, some Chinese people might be a little bit too 'curious' about foreigner's lifestyles, but I think it's usually just a standard topic of conversation for people.  Also, I think the idea that someone who is not in a relationship would not be actively looking for a partner is a bit alien in China, so if you're single and in China then you must be looking for a girlfriend... a Chinese girlfriend.  I think if you spend any time hanging out with ordinary Chinese people in their 20's/early 30's you'll quickly realise that pretty much every conversation, if not specifically about relationships, has some sort of relationship subtext to it.

 

I don't think anyone has ever asked me accusingly "Are you trying to find a Chinese girlfriend?", but would usually say something like "Would you go out with a Chinese girl, or prefer someone from your own country?"  And the follow-up to this is almost always a speech on the virtues of Chinese women, or like realmayo says advice about buying apartments etc.  I once had a taxi driver ask me if I had the required 几百万 in the bank to get a good enough wife, and that if I saved more I could find a better partner (or multiple partners, which was the option he had apparently chosen).

[Lu]

On the subject of picturesque poverty, I've always liked this poem by Yin Lichuan. Not sure what year she wrote it, but I read it in 2006, so the sentiment has been around for some time.

 

为了这一眼

 

为了这一眼
还有一个男娃儿蹲在垃圾堆里玩耍
还有一个小娘子飘散着胰子的香气
还有一些房子拥挤着透风漏雨
还有一片水稻地深埋下弯曲的脊梁

我在火车上，他们活在我的车窗
我路过他们，他们路过
我来自京城的一眼，为了这一眼
希望他们继续这样生活，南国的风情
多么朴素。千万不要盖起
高楼大厦，孩子们千万别玩
变形金钢，女人们更不要喷
夏奈尔香水，水稻将永远
用人工播种
房子若不漏雨，诗人还怎么
写得出诗歌

这是全体城市同胞对你们的
殷切希望，以及对自身的深刻反省
就像外国友人来到北京，长吁短叹、疾首痛心：
那温良可人的四合院呢？老鼠多富有情趣，
苍蝇是如此真实，老奶奶挥扇驱蚊，哦！
Country road!
好一片发展中风光！

为了外国友人的这一眼，
我不得不痛斥我所归的高楼，所往的超市
并时常对街边的苍蝇们谄笑

所以为了我火车上的这一眼
祝福农村孩子们热爱垃圾，在垃圾中长大，
生出另一些农民孩子，传唱民族魂的歌谣

[Chris Two Times]

A table with Korean or Chinese of the same age will all sit there not talking to each other, staring at their phones (after taking a selfie next to their food - with a big smile before going back to frowning). Walking on the street they always seem to walk very slowly and often crashing into other people, whilst other people on the phones look up/around to navigate foot traffic.

 

Hilarious stapler, you hit the nail on the head: perfect write-up of this wacky "phenomenon".

 

I don't get out of the way of people walking glued to their cell phones anymore: "You idiots, you're in one of the most populated cities in the world [beijing]. You gotta watch where you're going!" are my thoughts. I will run right into them. What I find annoying/amusing is after I run into them, they will express surprise as if I was supposed to get out of their way--nope, ain't gonna happen.

 

For a while a Korean graduate student was tutoring me in Beginning Korean. I went out to lunch with her one day and then got coffee. At that point the conversations had slowed down and I was fine with not saying much to her. She seemed fine with it as well and did exactly what stapler mentioned. She became absorbed in taking multiple selfies and smiled for the camera again and again and then became straight-faced when the camera was put down. Observing her, I wondered "what is wrong with her?"

 

As a gent in his early 40s, I get the question of "are you married" a lot. My experiences with this parallel somethingfunny's experiences. I never find it to be threatening, merely just showing innocent curiosity. The follow-up always seems to be "you can get a Chinese wife! Would you be interested in a Chinese wife?" While I find the repetitiveness of such conversations to be a bit dull, I do appreciate their encouragement and "looking out for me".   I don't tell them that I am in a very nice relationship with a Chinese woman (who knows how to put the cell phone away when we are out on a date).

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[stapler]

I have been outside of China for two years so I always feel grateful that I get to experience the rapid changes more fully, seeing them in a kind of time lapse. Unfortunately this time I've mainly been recording video. While I believe video captures a much better view of things it obviously isn't that great for sharing on a forum! Nonetheless I still have a few photos that I think are pretty cool.

 

One of the most obvious things I have noticed this time is the massive 文明 campaign that's being rolled out. More houses than ever before have been marked for destruction and whole villages have been converted into new government districts and 文明区's. This often creates interesting juxtapositions between the original village and the new districts.

 

 
The prices of food and basic goods in these new districts are outrageous as many villagers have been handsomely compensated to have their houses torn down and the new found wealth seems to have flowed into prices. A few years ago many villagers were building their houses where the new bullet trains were going to be built. They even have a name 拆二代. Now it seems that the big bucks are made in the villages that surround small rural towns. Even some of the relative newer villages have been marked for destruction.

 

 

I've commented before about the differences between the new housing and the traditional. At the time I thought the villagers were happy to move into new houses or apartments. This time however I got a different story. Many people complained that the new houses had poor heating and cooling. Something about the construction of the new houses means they become super hot in summer and icey cold in winter. I even met some people who have a new house or apartment but sleep in their traditional houses, only moving into the new house when guests are coming.

 

 

Walking around another village I saw a sign that wasn't for 打井 or 建筑文明 or 收大狗. Instead it was the first church I've ever seen in China. It seemed even more bizarre that it was located in the back alleys of small town. I followed the road for 50 metres and when I turned the corner there was a gigantic 3 story church, almost bigger than a government building. After I went inside I started speaking to a lay member of the church. Their Mandarin was very standard so it was quite easy for me to talk them. They were very keen to get me to convert. I have no interest. But it was strangely refreshing to hear someone so sincere and earnest in what can be a pretty cynical and materialistic country. I couldn't work out how the church was getting so much money to fund its large operation. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was foreign money.

 

 

Lastly, I discovered 板栗, which I think is a type of chestnut. The countryside in the south is filled with these trees at the moment. When they're ripe they fall off the tree with a thud. When kids hear this noise they all run out to try and find the fallen chestnut. It's almost like an Easter Egg hunt. Eventually however the adults come and you basically beat the tree to death with a large piece of bamboo and collect all the fallen 板栗. The shell is incredible sharp and can even pierce your shoes. Having them fall on your head is incredibly painful too. You start off by banging off the low hanging nuts, then climb up the tree to get the rest off. I left the second part to the professionals.

 

 

I was told that it sells for about 7 yuan per jin. It took us 4 adults about 3 hours of banging the tree then pry open about 8 jin of chestnuts. About 4-5 yuan per person per hour, not even counting the time it would take to drive to the market and sell them. Nasty. But not as bad as doing rice.

 

 

The pay is much lower. And the conditions are gruelling. It's always 35C with near 100% humidity, the grass gets stuck in your clothes, there are leeches in the water, and you make much less money in terms of effort-to-reward than doing something like chestnuts. It is for this reason that many people are transitioning into growing more meat.