Chinese names for tones

[johnyork]

Chinese names for tones

 

When discussing tones with native Mandarin speakers, I use the following names to identify the 5 tones of Mandarin.

 

(1) 阴平声 high, (2) 阳平声 rising, (3) 上声 dipping, (4) 去声 falling, (5) 轻声 neutral

 

This is fine for discussing any of the 5 tones of Mandarin Chinese. However, when I want to identify a tone outside of Mandarin Chinese, this is where I need the opinion of native Mandarin speakers.

Here are some tones (outside of Mandarin) that I am refering to by their name in Chinese.

 

低平声 (literally low level tone)

入声 (literally entering tone) (i.e. a syllable that ends in a glottal stop)

中平声 (literally mid level tone)

 

So my question is this. Would you understand 低平声, 入声 and 中平声 if I used these words with you?

 

[Hofmann]

For describing levels and contours, see the right side of this page.

 

Since you seem to want to describe linguistic tones, I wouldn't use the term 入聲.

[johnyork]

Thanks for the wiki link Hofmann, very good information. However, if I did say 入声 would you understand I meant a syllable with a glottal stop or no? I realize 入声 literally means "entering tone" and doesn't mention the glottal stop, but I was thinking that Mandarin speakers might remember this tone name from studying Classical Chinese in school. Also,  入 is used in the naming of checked tones in Cantonese and Teochew.

 

I understand the purpose of my question is whether or not my choice of words would be understood. If you wouldn't recognize 入声 as a "checked tone" then probably other Mandarin speakers aren't going to understand me neither.

[Hofmann]

入聲 is an established term for syllables ending in unreleased plosives (none of which are glottal) in Middle Chinese and their descendants in modern Chinese. The only way you wouldn't be understood is if your interlocutor isn't very well educated.

[lingo-ling]

Someone familiar with Chinese linguistics would understand.

[Kelby]

Out of curiosity, would these be universally recognized by native Chinese speakers or are they more technical terms for the tones? I've always gotten bu just saying 第1-4声 and have been understood well enough.

[johnyork]

Kelby, please accept my apologies as the question I presented can be a little confusing. This question is not about the names of the 5 tones of Mandarin. You are perfectly fine to refer to them by their tone number like you have been doing.

 

The purpose of my question was to gather information about the naming of tones "OUTSIDE" of Mandarin. The following tone names would be recognized by native Mandarin speakers: 阴平, 阳平, 上, 去 and 轻声 (or 一声, 二声，三声，四声 and 轻声) and my question is not asking about these names.

 

I was just looking for opinions for the names I was currently using to describe tones "OUTSIDE" of Mandarin. I was looking to modify the names if they weren't conveying my intended meaning.

 

Think of it like this. Forget about Mandarin for minute and think about another language, like Thai language for example. If I am speaking to a Thai person and I am discussing tones with that person and they hear me pronounce a word that has a tone unfamiliar to them, I obviously can't reference a Thai tone name or a Thai tone number if the tone being discussed doesn't exist in Thai language. I would have to be creative and use a descriptive name if I wanted to give the tone we were discussing a name to identify it by.

[Kelby]

Alright, I'm caught up now. A lack of careful reading on my part.

[lingo-ling]

Just for the sake of information: Thai uses a different system to describe its five tones--mid, high, falling, low, rising--which the Thais call "ordinary, 1, 2, 3, and 4", using Sanskrit numbers to represent the four numbered tones.

 

I think what's being asked is how you represent tones in terms like "high rising" or "low falling" or "mid level" when describing them to people who speak another tonal language.

[johnyork]

I appreciate everyone's replies thus far on this topic.

 

Here is my current thoughts on this topic of naming tones foreign to a Mandarin speaker. Once again, so there is no confusion, my question is not about the 5 tones of Mandarin. Those tones would be "native tones" and "native Mandarin speakers" would understand those and they wouldn't need anyone to explain those tones to them. However, they would need someone to name (or identify or explain, etc.)  a tone that is foreign to them. For example, a low tone in Ewe or a creaky tone in Burmese or a mid level tone in Vietnamese or any other tone that is not part Mandarin (Beijing) dialect.

 

Okay, with that being said, here is my current take. I can't use conventional names borrowed from surrounding Chinese dialects (as I originally thought I could). The reason being is because of the ambiguous nature of tone names across Chinese dialects. What this means is that if I attempt to borrow the name of a mid tone 陰去 from Cantonese, then the interlocutor may get confused, because a mid tone in another Chinese dialect may not share that name. To make this point even more vivid, the tone name 阴平 will be recognized by a Mandarin speaker as a high tone in Mandarin, but a Teochew speaker would know 阴平 as a mid tone. As you can see, attempting to use names of tones from neighboring Chinese dialects will not work. Also, the Chinese dialects combined do not possess all the tones of all languages globally. So, you would run out of names using the "borrow a name from another Chinese dialect" method. Using tone numbers from other Chinese dialects won't work also as their is not a uniform order across different dialects. Tone numbers only work for people who are already familiar with the tones of a particular dialect. Example, tone 1 of Mandarin is high, but tone 1 of Teochew is a mid tone.

 

Now, this brings me to my current solution and that is to simply use descriptive tone names that are "dialect independent". Some examples are as follows...

 

Low tone 低调

Mid tone 中调

 

调 is more identified with "pitch" and will let the interlocutor know I mean a "specific" pitch. I have tested this on live Mandarin speakers and they appeared to understand me. So if you are a native speaker, tell me what you would understand. That is the purpose of the question. At the time of this posting, the x调 (where x is an adjective describing the pitch) method seems to be the most easily understood way to describe a tone foreign to Mandarin speakers. Pre-existing conventional tone names from neighboring Chinese dialects is no longer an option as this will simply not work because they are ambiguous. Also, tone numbers are not an option either because they are not uniform.