Frustrated with my lack of progress!

[trisha2766]

querido - I saw your longer reply, it was fine - it didn't need to be polished!

[imron]

Imron - I'm not so sure that having the subtitles on at this point is bad for me. I can turn away pretty easily since I can't read that fast.  But it can help with getting an idea of what they are talking about.

That's why transcripts are so good.  You can use them to get an idea of what they are talking about, and then listen to the audio purely for practising listening.

 

I didn't see the links to the mp3's for QQSR.

They were in the overseakids.com link, though checking that out now, I see the page is completely in Chinese so it might be a bit daunting to navigate.

 

If you scroll right to the bottom, you'll see the one for 锵锵三人行.  Here's the link to their feed of the mp3s.

[querido]

Oh, I'm so glad! :-)

Subtitles can be blocked with a piece of cardboard.

[gato]

See if you can find the MP3 downloads of 锵锵三人行 here:

http://feed.overseakids.com/Qiangqiang3.xml

 

It's from the http://www.overseakids.com/ website.

 

See download instructions from realmayo:

 

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/42490-qqsrx-list-of-episodes/?p=319732

To download from http://www.overseakids.com/ , which I think is an unofficial source:

 

Search for 锵锵三人 on http://www.overseakids.com/

Near the bottom of the page, you get a list of options: [视频][HD][音频][64K]

These are video; HD video; audio only; better quality audio

Click on one of those options.

From the list of episodes, right-click on the episode you want, select "save as" or equivalent.

 

You're then asked for a user name and password.

 

User name: Guest   [need the capital G]

For the password, go to http://www.overseakids.com/?node=532

At the bottom there's a yellow box with a bit of blue peeking out the bottom. Click on the blue box and drag it so that the letters/numbers in white in the blue box are visible. This is the password, which will expire in a few minutes.

[trisha2766]

Thanks!  I went ahead and downloaded all four from the other thread. I tried just following along with the text a bit tonight and its pretty hard to even do that.  On the first one the woman on the show keeps laughing so much you can't hear the other people clearly or understand what she's saying.  But I'll keep working on it a little at a time.  I guess a big part of learning is working on many different things, approaching it from many different angles, etc. 

 

Watched a lot of TV again tonight, it seems like it helps a little.  And I'm still enjoying the commercials! 

[deathtrap]

 

 

Right now I think the only audio I have mp3's for are the NPCR dialogues, which are maybe too slow and artificial. 

 

If the MP3's are too slow for you then you can watch the videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iva5oTtcmM4&list=PLB620F646A9004BDA which have much faster dialogue. 

[rahxephon]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree about not using subtitles when watching TV/movies. I find it extremely helpful to be able to see what I am listening to on the fly. And it makes it easier to look up words that I didn't catch. If anything, using them off and on is ideal. 

 

I'm also going to disagree about listening to music. I never found it helpful at all, mostly because people don't talk the way they sing and are all over the place when it comes to tones. 

 

Try watching the Chinese cartoon Xi Yang Yang WITH subtitles. I think being able to understand what's going on in this show is the official rite of passage to higher levels for Mandarin learners. 

[imron]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree about not using subtitles when watching TV/movies

It depends what skill you are trying to practice.  If you are trying to work on your listening, removing subtitles will give you an accurate measure of your ability.  Having subtitles will allow you to gain part of the meaning from reading rather than pure listening.  That may be worthwhile, but it also hampers your listening if your reading is the stronger skill.

[querido]

Imron's point also argues against memorized or partly memorized audio for training listening comprehension, as that memory can be consulted like subtitles.

You've probably experienced this too: listening to my all-Chinese podcast collection on random/repeat, after a very few words I recognized the lesson and knew what they were going to say. While this is a pleasant achievement, it is nowhere close to what we must do "on the street", "on the fly", and I know that many learners don't realize how far short it falls.

And all of those threads about learning words are talking about something prerequisite to this.

So, if you've learned x-hundred or x-thousand words and -suddenly- realize that your listening comprehension lags so.far behind, you can be sure that you aren't alone. So that it won't be such a brutal surprise we should warn beginners!

It would be helpful if this relative weighting of things would rise higher in our collective consciousness, as then we could spend more brainpower on ways to fix it. I shared one way to stay in this state - of decoding a continuous riddle but one composed of words we already know - for at least a few hours (the first time through). But it's still mysteriously harder done than said. What is the key approach that has no doubt been mentioned but not tagged as essential in this exact context?

[rahxephon]

I agree if you're trying to measure your true listening level. However, I like being able to see exactly how and when words are used as it expedites the process of learning new (spoken) vocab. It is very efficient when you can rapidly identify words you don't know, input them into a dictionary, and move on without having to pause. Much better than trying to learn the vocab in advance, then trying to listen for when it's spoken, if it's spoken at all. 

 

Raw listening is best if you want to improve your comprehension of words you've already studied. If you are simultaneously trying to learn new vocab, particularly stuff not taught in textbooks, the use of subtitles might be a good idea. Over the years I know there have been a ton of great words and phrases I probably would have never learned had I not had subtitles enabled. As I said though, using subtitles off and on might be a better option than ruling it out completely.   

[imron]

As I said though, using subtitles off and on might be a better option than ruling it out completely.

I don't think we are in disagreement.

 

I'm not advocating never using subtitles, only that you should consider removing subtitles if your purpose is to improve your listening - which is the skill the OP stated they needed work on, and which my posts were talking about.

 

Subtitles can of course be useful in other situations such as the ones you mentioned.

[Pingfa]

 

Raw listening is best if you want to improve your comprehension of words you've already studied. If you are simultaneously trying to learn new vocab, particularly stuff not taught in textbooks, the use of subtitles might be a good idea

Completely agree. One can't improve listening comprehension without first having learned the vocabulary and sentence structure, so any aid you can get is worth it at that point.

If your knowledge of the language is sufficient, then I absolutely recommend raw listening. I had this issue for a long time (often not hearing basic sentences or words I've heard a bazillion times, even after understanding most everything I read), until I stopped relying on subtitles and focused on strengthening my relation with the sound of the words.

 

That said, I also agree that using subtitles on and off is a viable option. When I was weaning myself off subtitles I would wait until the person has finished their sentence before glancing at the subtitles for confirmation (don't peak halfway through a sentence, you want to get used to the flow).

[AdamD]

This thread speaks to me right now.

 

After several years of study, I still can't form good sentences. That leads to two outcomes:

 

1. People completely failing to understand my written or spoken sentences because my grammar is so hacky.

2. Certain people correcting everything I say, to the point that I can't converse at all.

 

Today I'm suffering a confluence of very sticky weather, horrible neighbours and the most painful conversational dead-end I've had this year: when I couldn't explain to a WeChat friend in China that my brain is broken ("What are you saying? I don't understand"), I chucked a fit of exasperation and just bailed.

 

My plan (because I never, ever give in to Chinese) is to work through all the grammar points I learned several years ago and get back up to scratch. It's going to take months.

 

The most frustrating part of all this is that, objectively speaking, my language level is undoubtedly better than it was even six months ago. Am I being greedy? Am I just having another "bad China day" (cheers to mr.kylelong for the vernacular)? Probably.

 

trisha2766, if you're still struggling with listening and you've got an iOS device, an app called Parrot Player (paid) will help you put the great advice in this thread into practice. It lets you carve up an mp3 into small chunks and loop any chunk nonstop. I'll start doing exactly that tomorrow.

[roddy]

It does sound like a bout of going back to basics is needed, Adam. Mentally send yourself back to elementary level, but commit to being a good elementary level - you might only use single clause sentences, and you might only use HSK 1 vocab, but you'll use 'em properly. 

 

One query on "failing to understand my written or spoken sentences because my grammar is so hacky" though - are you sure that's why? How confident are you on pronunciation? You say people are correcting you, so if it's grammar rather than pronunciation they're correcting, fair enough - but don't assume what you think is the problem is actually the problem. 

[AdamD]

It's probably time to crack open that old unused copy of NPCR 1.

 

One query on "failing to understand my written or spoken sentences because my grammar is so hacky" though - are you sure that's why?

 

I'm sure there's a distinct problem in my written communication because a lot of it happens in text-only 微信. At least in person I can gesticulate a lot of what I'm trying to say, or even say the same thing four different ways to get the message across. Pronunciation doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

That said, I'll take your advice into account and look at other possible causes. On some days I can form legible sentences all day, and on others it actually feels like my brain is jammed. I've not been able to work out why.

[roddy]

Post some stuff up here if you like - pronunciation samples or copy and pastes of chats, someone'll help you out. But if you're going back to basics it's probably worth doing it as comprehensively as is needed - would be a bit of a blow to realise a year later that actually you missed something...

[AdamD]

Okay. Here are the last two sentences that went nowhere:

 

天气很潮 Today is humid (I think I just used a word that doesn't mean 'humid' here)

我的脑子坏了 My brain is broken (not a relatable concept in Chinese?)

 

I've been hitting grammar pretty hard this year, but only as I come across things, not with any real structure.

[gato]

Are these people that you usually chat about the weather and brain matters with? How does the conversation usually go?

[AdamD]

Usually it goes much better than yesterday, although I always seem to make enough grammatical errors to be corrected a lot.

[Bigdumogre]

You can also download the Viki app or stream through there site. Tons of great dramas and movies to watch. Just finished bye,old days it's a 8 min short and very easy to follow and listen to even someone at my beginner level.

http://www.viki.com/videos/1030851v-bye-old-days?q=Bye#