QQSRX #5 Tough Living Conditions 锵锵三人行

[michaelS]

Episode #5
Date       2013 年12月17日
Title        北京“井底人”引发的社会思考   Beijing “Well Dwellers” Give Society Pause for Thought

Link to transcript    http://phtv.ifeng.com/program/qqsrx/detail_2013_12/18/32230079_0.shtml
Link to video          http://v.ifeng.com/news/society/201312/01ffa47f-7b35-42fb-841c-21fa5e993d4d.shtml
Youtube link           http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOm7qDQnZlo
Episodes list          http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/42490-qqsrx-list-of-episodes/

Host:                      窦文涛
Guests:                  李纯恩 and 张坚庭

Topic: Tough living conditions in Beijing and Hong Kong

 

Some background reading:
Beijing “Well Dwellers”
China’s homeless shelters

Summary:
• Where does Wentao live, and who are his neighbours?
• Are Hong Kong homeless shelters too cushy?
• Do Hong Kong media and mainland media report news stories about poverty in a different way?
• Is it better to live in a cave in Gansu or a cage in Hong Kong?
• How much can you earn washing dishes in Hong Kong?
• Is BitCoin a safer currency than Hong Kong Dollars?
• What's going on with homelessness in Japan?

 

All feedback gratefully received!

[michaelS]

Translation of first few mins

Blue = query, bold = vocab

 

 

1.    窦文涛：《锵锵三人行》，坚庭也来了，纯恩你们平常在香港北京的人民的生活的苦况今天你们也关心一下，你知道现在北京都炒什么新闻？穴居井中人。

1.    Wentao: QQSRX. Zhang Jianting and Li Chun’en are here, you two are usually in Hong Kong, today we'll consider the tough living conditions in Beijing. Do you know what everyone in Beijing is talking about at the moment? Well dwellers.

2.    李纯恩：看新闻了。

2.    Li Chun’en: I saw that story.

3.    窦文涛：说来我都觉得有点惭愧，我就住在那地方附近。

3.    Wentao: I feel a bit embarrassed about it, I actually live in that area.

4.    李纯恩：是吗？

4.    Li Chun’en: Oh really?

5.    窦文涛：真的。

5.    Wentao: Yes.

6.    李纯恩：你走马路经过那个井盖下边。

6.    Li Chun’en: So when you walk down the street you’ve passed over those manholes.

7.    窦文涛：我一定经过过，当然我就属于朱门酒肉臭了。

7.    Wentao: Definitely. I’m clearly a have rather than a have-not.

8.    李纯恩：你就是朱门里边的人。

8.    Li Chun’en: You live on the right side of the tracks.

 

[1.00]

 

9.    窦文涛：因为你要知道那一带丽都那一带它是北京比较早的外国人好的地方，至少都是四万平米以上，周围丽都酒店或者是什么，它因为也是比较早的时候， 因为外交那种大使馆的在附近，所以很多外国人在这边活动居住，所以可以说你知道我在北京我就有一个什么体会？什么地方好跟着老外走，老外在哪住你在哪住， 那肯定是好的。

9.    Wentao: You've got to bear in mind that Lido was the part of Beijing that foreigners picked up on fairly early as a good place to live, property costs over 40,000RMB per square metre, there’s Hotel Lido and so on nearby, from fairly early on, because of the diplomatic… the embassies, so therefore a lot of foreigners came to live in these places. So  you know what I realised about Beijing? Places are good based on where the laowai go. Wherever the laowai are you should go, that’ll definitely be a good spot.

10.    李纯恩：就从以前的东交民巷开始，都是好地方。

10.    Li Chun’en:  It’s like the Beijing Legation Quarter used to be, that kind of good area.

11.    窦文涛：所以你想在那个地方他住在这个井里，你看看这个照片，这底下。

11.    Wentao: So if you can imagine, in this type of area there are people living in wells. Have a look at this photo, this cellar.

12.    李纯恩：原来这个底下因为我没去过，底下挺大的地方。

12.    Li Chun’en: Originally I thought that these cellars were huge places, because I’d never been.

13.    窦文涛：你照片你应该知道，照片是会宽。

13.    Wentao: Remember that photos make things look wider than they really are.

14.    李纯恩：会广角。

14.    Li Chun’en: It’s a wide-angle shot.

15.    窦文涛：是会有广角的，实际上是窄得很，你再看下边，大概他睡觉的面积一平方米，这里边还有老太太，60岁的老太太每天踩着钢筋上下。

15.    Wentao: It’s wide-angle, it’s actually extremely narrow, have a look at the next one. Maybe one square metre to sleep in. Here’s the old woman, a sixty-year-old woman who every day goes up and down the metal rungs.

16.    李纯恩：是北京人吗？

16.    Li Chun’en: Is she a local?

17.    窦文涛：都是外地来打工，她没地方住，然后你再看下边，你看这老太太，这跟打地道战似的。

17.    Wentao: No, they’ve all come from outside the city to work, she has nowhere to stay. Look at the next one, the old woman, it looks like a kind of tunnel warfare.

 

[2.00]

 

18.    李纯恩：她那个电哪来的呢？

18.    Li Chun’en: Where’s that light coming from?

19.    窦文涛：蜡烛，只靠蜡烛。

19.    Wentao: A candle, no other option but candles.

20.    李纯恩：烛光。

20.    Li Chun’en: Ah, candlelight.

21.    窦文涛：对，你再看下边，这些生活用品了。

21.    Wentao: Ok, next one, some of her household goods.

22.    李纯恩：那北京冬天很冷。

22.    Li Chun’en: But Beijing winter is very cold, right?

23.    窦文涛：按说地底下到冬暖夏凉，但是到了晚上有记者跟他们一起体验了一下，就拿手机做温度计，眼看着现在北京的冬天，一直往下掉，你再看下边，再走，这是现在被发现了，一报道出去反正也没法在这住了，附近就把他们清理出去了，你再看下边，再看我们这导演一直放完，你看。

23.    Wentao: Well, they say that under the ground is warm in winter and cool in summer, but there were some journalists who went underground to try it out for themselves in the evening and measured the temperature on their phones. Seeing as how it’s now winter in Beijing, the temperature is still getting lower… Look at the next photo, no, keep going. This is what’s just happened, and now that it's been reported, they can't live there any longer, so they’ve been swept out of the area. Have a look at the next one. Keep going. When our producer has finished scrolling through the pictures…

24.    李纯恩：封起来了。

24.    Li Chun’en: Sealed up!

25.    窦文涛：封起来了。

25.    Wentao: Sealed up.

26.    张坚庭：温度是多低？

26.    Zhang Jianting: But what’s the temperature?

27.    窦文涛：冬天？

27.    Wentao: In winter?

28.    张坚庭：冬天。

28.    Zhang Jianting: Yes, in winter.

 

[3.00]

 

29.    窦文涛：外面有多低这里就差不多有多低，说地底下暖和也暖和不了一两度，现在封起来，以前也曾经封起来，比如奥运会的时候封起来，但是他们转了几天以后撬开又在里面住。

29.    Wentao: It’s more or less the same as outside. To say that underground is a bit warmer doesn’t mean it’s any warmer than 1⁰C or 2⁰C. Now they’ve sealed them up, this has happened before, for instance when the Olympics were on, but the people come back after a few days and prise them open again, go and live inside again.

30.    李纯恩：那他们这样出来以后他不就流离失所了嘛，有没有一个什么机构收留他们呢？

30.    Li Chun’en: But they haven’t simply been kicked out onto the streets, right? Isn’t there some kind of shelter for them to go to?

31.    窦文涛：你知道现在中国当年不是出了一个救助，就是在广州有个大学生叫孙志刚被活活打死了，那个很著名的事情，那个事情就是启动了一个什么呢？就是救助不能强迫，所以当然警察什么这都知道，到这就问他们你们去救助站。

31.    Wentao: You know now… In the past in China there wasn’t any assistance offered, so you got cases like in Guangzhou, there was a student name Sun Zhigang who was beaten to death, a very famous case, which led to… It meant that now you can’t use force, you can’t compel people to accept assistance. Of course the police know this, so nowadays they just ask them, will you go to the relief centre?

32.    李纯恩：有救助站。

32.     Li Chun’en: So there are relief centres, then?

33.    窦文涛：当然有了，但是他不去，他们就跑，为什么不去呢？像里边有一个好像叫王秀青的，他说你救助我一个，你把我们家，你把五个全救助才行，你别看他住在这，他为什么？他还挣几千块钱呢，但是他为什么？他供他三个孩子上学。

33.    Wentao: Of course there are, but the people don’t go to them, they run away, and why’s that? Because inside you get cases like Wang Xiuqing’s, he said that you can’t just help me, you need to help my whole family, all five of us. Don't simply look at where he lives, think about why he lives there. He’s earning a few thousand RMB, because he has three children he needs to send to school.

 

[4.00]

 

34.    李纯恩：他不用付房租。

34.    Li Chun’en: Having to pay rent is no good for him.

35.    窦文涛：对，他自己住在这样的地方，他每天早上凌晨三点起床洗车，给人洗车，洗车然后他这点钱就供养三个孩子，所以他说你要让我住。

35.    Wentao: Exactly, he himself lives in this type of place, gets up every day at the crack of dawn, three o’ clock in the morning, and goes to wash cars, washes other people’s cars, and after that with this little bit of money he can provide for his three kids. So he wants to be left in peace to carry on.

36.    李纯恩：那他救助了以后，比如说给他一个地方住，他自然可以出去给人家洗车。

36.    Li Chun’en: If he were supported, if he were given somewhere to live, obviously he could carry on giving people car washes.

37.    张坚庭：比较远。

37.    Zhang Jianting: He’d be too far away.

38.    窦文涛：就不方便了。

38.    Wentao: So it wouldn’t work out.

[michaelS]

Queries

 

9 因为你要只有那一带丽都那一带它是北京比较早的外国人好的地方

It doesn't sound like 只有 on the audio, and I can't see what sense it would make. Could it be 住的?

 

9 至少都是四万平米以上   How would we best translate this into English?

 

13 照片是会宽    Does it mean that it has been widened, or simply that it appears wide?

 

23 一报道出去反正也没法在这住了  My translation was "A report’s come out which says that they can’t live here". Is there anything missing out from that?

 

33 你别看他住在这，他为什么？ I've got a bit lost among the pronouns. What's 别看 doing here?

 

I have other queries about later parts which I’ll post another day.

[michaelS]

Vocabulary

 

3  惭愧  cánkuì   --  ashamed,embarrassed

7  朱门酒肉臭         Half of the idiom “朱门酒肉臭，路有冻死骨”, which refers to the disparity between the very rich and very poor.

10  东交民巷   (note typo in transcript)    Beijing Legation Quarter, the old laowai district

14  广角  guǎngjiǎo   --  wide-angle

15  钢筋  gāngjīn    --  steel bars, rungs

17  地道战  dìdào zhàn    --  tunnel warfare

24  封起来  fēng qǐlái   --  to seal up

29  撬开  qiào kāi   --  to prise open

30  流离失所  liúlíshīsuǒ    --  destitute, homeless, roaming the streets

30  收留  hōuliú   --  shelter

31  救助  jiùzhù    --  aid, relief, assistance

31  孙志刚         A homeless man beaten to death in a rescue shelter in 2003

33  王秀青         A famous well dweller

35  凌晨  língchén    --  very early in the morning

 

 

避寒   bìhán     --  a shelter (from the cold)

题外话   tí wàihuà    -- a digression

福利署  fúlì shǔ    --  Welfare Department (in Hong Kong, here)

(床) 褥子   (chuáng) rùzi    --  a mattress

母子  mǔzǐ    --  mother and child

俯拍  fǔ pāi    --  overhead shot

笼屋/笼民   lóngwū/ lóngmín --  Hong Kong residences where people live in cages/ the people who live in them

挤破   jǐ pò    --  full to bursting

耻辱  chǐrǔ (note that they have a little trouble saying this word in 普通话!)   --  disgrace

露宿的  lùsùde    --  rough sleeper

存钱回乡  cún qián huí xiāng    --  save money and then return to one’s hometown

第一优先  dìyī yōuxiān    --  number one priority

救星  jiùxīng    --  saviour

行善 xíngshàn    --  good deeds

卖肾  mài shèn    --  to sell a kidney

煽情 shānqíng    --   sensational(ist)

天水围   --  Tin Shui Wai, a district of Hong Kong. Perhaps someone else can explain its significance.

甘肃  Gānsù   --  a province in NW China

筹款  chóu kuǎn    --  fundraising

窑洞  yáodòng    -- a kind of cave dwelling in the Loess Plateau in northwest China

弱智 ruòzhì    --  mentally handicapped

 

 

包场洗碗    bāochǎng xǐ wǎn    --  refers to a specific news story, I think. But I’m not certain of the meaning of 包场 – does it refer to private contractors?

李嘉诚       --  Li Ka-Shing,  the richest man in Asia

僵  jiāng    --   (here) deadlock

比特币  bǐtè bì    --  Bitcoin

不靠谱 bù kàopǔ    --  unreliable

(方)程式  (fāng) chéngshì    --  equation

供求  gōngqiú    --  supply and demand

流量  liúliàng    --  production rate (i.e. of Bitcoins); web traffic

时代周刊  shídài zhōukān    --  Time magazine

以物易物  yǐ wù yì wù    --  barter

片瓦遮头  piànwǎzhētóu    --  a roof over one’s head

大阪心斋桥  dàbǎn xīnzhāiqiáo    --  Shinsaibashi, Osaka

棺材  guāncai    --  coffin

潜水艇  qiánshuǐ ting    --  submarine

弹吉  dàn jí    --  to play guitar

流浪汉  liúlànghàn    -- a tramp

[roddy]

Excellent to see someone else doing these! I'm so delighted I'm going to try and help out immediately, rather than waiting a few days to see if anyone else does, like I do with realmayo's...

 

at 9 - 知道 - 你要知道 is often used like we might use 'you've got to remember / be aware that...' in English Then  至少都是四万平米以上 - property costs over 40,000Y a square meter. 

13 - 会宽 - he's saying photographs make things look wider (bigger), so the room is actually smaller than it appears. 

23 - It's actually that now it's been reported, they can't live there (as now the authorities are aware, or there's too much attention, or they were squatting anyway, I don't know)

33 - 你别看他住在这，他为什么... - best way to understand this I think is "Don't see that he lives there (and assume he needs rescued). Why does he live there... he's...

[michaelS]

Very helpful input, I've made some changes.

 

Re: the second query, I think I get a mental block whenever people start talking about prices per square metre, and just assume that I won't be able to conceptualise it, know if it's a lot or a little, etc. That happens a lot in China, and increasingly when I'm back in London as well.

[roddy]

Some notes for you...

 

12 - he's saying he's surprised by how big at it is, not that he thought it was big. Then we get the bit about how the photo makes it look bigger. 

23 被发现 is now they've been found / discovered...

30 But they haven’t simply been kicked out onto the streets, right? - I would have that as "doesn't that mean they're out on the streets. Is there any kind of...". He's not assuming that they're being looked after. 

31. 你知道现在中国当年不是出了一个救助 - he's arranging his thoughts here, but it's been transcribed as a complete sentence. "You know now... one year wasn't there a... helping..." and then he gets more coherent

[michaelS]

Thanks again Roddy, I think I was a little cavalier at times

 

 

12.    李纯恩：原来这个底下因为我没去过，底下挺大的地方。

12.    Li Chun’en: Originally I thought that these cellars were huge places, because I’d never been.

12 - he's saying he's surprised by how big at it is, not that he thought it was big. Then we get the bit about how the photo makes it look bigger.

 

What's the function of 原来 in this sentence, then? Is he saying that he'd supposed it would've been smaller?

30.    李纯恩：那他们这样出来以后他不就流离失所了嘛，有没有一个什么机构收留他们呢？

30.    Li Chun’en: But they haven’t simply been kicked out onto the streets, right? Isn’t there some kind of shelter for them to go to?

30      I would have that as "doesn't that mean they're out on the streets. Is there any kind of...". He's not assuming that they're being looked after.

I don't know where I got 'simply' from. Just trying to make it flow I guess. But what's the role of 不 in the sentence with 他不就流离失所了 then? It felt to me like he was supposing they're being looked after

31. 你知道现在中国当年不是出了一个救助 - he's arranging his thoughts here, but it's been transcribed as a complete sentence. "You know now... one year wasn't there a... helping..." and then he gets more coherent

 

A good example of the dangers of translating without listening.

 

.....

 

Has anyone listened to the later sections (which I think are generally all quite interesting)?

 

Maybe someone (perhaps not Roddy, who's done enough!) can explain the significance of 包场洗碗,   李嘉诚,  天水围

 

In the case of the former, I don't really quite get the distinction between 包场洗碗 and a bog-standard dishwasher. With the other two, I lack the contextual knowledge to explain why they get brought up.

 

I'm still enjoying QQSRX a lot, it came on TV when I was in a Chinese restaurant in Madrid last week and I was very excited! I'll post up another episode in the next few days hopefully.

[Guest realmayo]

What's the function of 原来 in this sentence, then?

 

I think it's: "so actually...", "so in fact..."  i.e. this runs counter to what I'd thought:

 

'So actually, these places -- because I've never been -- are really big.'

 

原来如此: "aha, so that's how it is". "so that's what's been going on"

[skylee]

Let me try.

 

他不就流離失所了嗎 - wouldn't he be homeless then?

 

天水圍 - a remote new residential area in HK. Most of its residents earn low income. And it is far from the city centre and has less job opportunities. It is so far that people can't afford to travel to the city to work, so some of them don't bother to work at all. Poor schools, so children end up with less upward mobility, and they can't afford to get out of the place either. It is nicknamed 悲情城巿 (miserable city). If you like, you can take a look at the film 天水圍的日與夜.

 

包場洗碗 - contract dishwashing services. Dishwashing at restaurants is hard work, and with the introduction of minimum wage, people don't want to wash dishes any more if they can find easier jobs with comparable wages (like as security guards). This has presented a business opportunity - dishwashing contractors that provide centralised dishwashing services for restaurants and offer better working condition (so people are willing to work there).

 

I have not watched the programme so I don't know the significance or context of 李嘉誠.

 

PS - I have read the transcript. 李嘉誠's company is one of the biggest real estate developers in HK. In HK, real estates are extremely expensive, so such developers are all very rich. He is also very influential and people care a lot about what he says and does. If he says that he plans to move his investment elsewhere, i.e. 撤(資), people might panic and follow suit. They might sell their properties and the prices might go down and become more affordable.

[michaelS]

Thanks Skylee!