Another blogger setting out to learn Chinese in 3 months

[Baron]

Some might find this interesting to follow:

 

http://www.scotthyoung.com/blog/2014/02/13/plan-chinese-3-months/

 

He's a pretty accomplished speed learner, not dissimilar to Tim Feriss in his techniques. I don't know exactly what he means by 'learn', but I expect he'll make some pretty good progress.

[tysond]

I follow his blog, he finished a 4 year MIT comp sci course in a year, so knows how to learn.

 

And he's keen to learn characters too, which I think will aid him.  

Should make good progress for 3 months and interesting to see his analysis of how he learns.  

 

Note he didn't say "learn chinese" he said "My plan for learning Chinese over 3 months" so let's give some credit for not claiming fluency just yet.

[Shelley]

From what I read on the page from the link in post #1 that he wasn't aiming to read Chinese. 

 

He says "  My goal for the next three months is not to learn to read Chinese. I don’t expect, once I’m finished, that I’ll be able to read anything more than simple emails or text messages. Street signs, menus, newspapers and books will likely remain out of reach, even after three months "

 

He goes on to say that:  " That being said, I’m also not going to be allergic to learning characters along the way. If a method helps me learn characters and spoken Mandarin, or even accesses some of the synergies between these two goals, I’m all for it."

 

So it seems like learning characters is not part of his main plan, not that this is wrong I just don't think this qualifies as " he's keen to learn characters too, which I think will aid him"  as tysond said.

 

I don't think we are seeing a repeat of our other 3 month learner.

 

I wish him luck and hope he succeeds in his goals.

[tysond]

You are right I'm overstating it, "he's open to learning characters" is a better description.

[bluetortilla]

Why is he doing this?

 

Has language learning suddenly gotten macho? Maybe there's some steroids I can take...

[Kelby]

Why is he doing this?

Has language learning suddenly gotten macho? Maybe there's some steroids I can take...

To look cool, most likely. I'm unfamiliar with this person, but rapid learning is mostly a "look at how smart I am," thing in my experience.

Don't get me wrong, I'm envious of people who can go on crazy missions like this and get a lot out of it. If the guys got a powerful brain then good on him. It's good to see he's expanding it, but this sort of thing is hardly novel. I mean, look at Benny Lewis and Tim Ferris. They've proved this sort of thing can be done and I'm sure this guy will 80/20 and triage his way to success.

I'm a little skeptical that he'll add much to the rapid learning or Chinese learning world other than another smart guy story though.

Edit: maybe this reply is a bit negative. Thanks for posting for us to follow

[Silent]

 

To look cool, most likely. I'm unfamiliar with this person, but rapid learning is mostly a "look at how smart I am," thing in my experience.

It may come across and being presented as such, but I think it has more to do with commitment, discipline and smart study methods then really being smart. In three months they may very well commit more time then the average student commits in a year. I think most people who commit a comparable effort with the same discipline can reach such results.  

[Kelby]

I guess my issue is that this sort of project requires a lot of dissection from those of us watching. You have to watch pretty closely and think a lot about why he studies the way that he does and chooses what to study to get much personal value out of it.

I suppose I just take issue with it as a blogger (not that I claim to be a particularly good one) in that this sort of thing lends credibility to the writer without contributing much value to the reader.

I spent quite some time on his site and while interested greatly in his MIT CS degree in ten months project, there was very little to let those of us interested in doing the same sort of thing know how he did it in a nuts and bolts manner. Like I said, I'm not familiar with him, so maybe I missed some more or less obvious posts that detail how he did it, e.g., how he chose his material and what he studied (maybe that stuff is reserved for his mailing list). Maybe Tysond can enlighten us on his style a bit.

If the dude has great drive and commitment but doesn't help his readership figure out how to excel in the same manner then he runs the risk of becoming just another internet tall tale. I guess he has a guide to his methods up for sale which counts. However, I can't see much more value these projects add for the reader other than potential inspiration or a story about an interesting person you found online to tell your friends about.

[li3wei1]

but doesn't help his readership figure out how to excel in the same manner

 

I thought the whole point was to sell his books, which presumably do give the details.

[Guest realmayo]

Ah there we go, he sells e-books....

[Elizabeth_rb]

Just to give the chap the benefit of the doubt:

 

There are some people who are passionate about learning languages and some who are just passionate about learning.  The latter is part of the gifted personality and, given his academic record, this guy fits squarely into that category.  Folk like that don't do things just to look cool, or for show, or to make money.  They do it because it's part of them and they enjoy sharing it with others who may be interested.  If they can make a living, or a supplemental income out of it too, what's wrong with that?  Don't we all want to make a living doing something we love?

 

I don't know the guy personally, so I can't be sure what his motivation is, but I decline to judge him adversely just 'cos he's found a way to make some cash out of something he's good at and that can help others improve their skills, or because, if I'm honest, I rather envy his abilities and dedication.

 

PS I just had a look at his site and it seems that he *gives* an e-book for free....

[roddy]

You'll pay for it with your email address...

 

There's a very well established model: Eye-catching claims to grab links and readers. Free ebook to get email addresses. Emails to sell paid products. If anyone gets value out of it, fair enough - a market's a market, after all. I think it's the amount of self-promotion required I find off-putting.

[tysond]

Frankly, I bought Benny Lewis's product and it's junk.  The guy is selling false promises (his fluency definition is not real), doesn't actually have a technique worth learning (apart from "talk to a native speaker") and sells himself far too much.  Watching videos of Benny speaking Chinese I feel he has learned how to control the conversation so he doesn't have to be fluent in Chinese.  I feel that he is borderline scam.  @Kelby... to say Benny "proved" anything is a very big statement.  

 

Tim Ferris is more (brutally) honest but is really really committed to 80/20 which means he is ruthless with stuff that isn't going to get him over the bump of effectiveness to achieve 80% of what he wants.  If you watch his video where he speaks Chinese in Beijing it's not that he pretends he is fluent -- he readily admits he is not good --- but he can get stuff done.  His products don't have specific claims on Chinese as far as I know.  If people get to his level quickly that's great, they will find it really useful and a good basis for further study if required.

 

I find Scott Young more realistic, with real results, and a learning framework that makes sense --- so he is willing to share what he learns about learning more than convincing you that he is a savant who can learn Chinese faster than you, or lying about his goals.  He really did get an MIT degree in 1 year, unlike Benny who really did not become fluent in Chinese in 3 months.  Scott has an actual learning framework which can be applied to many learning projects.  I gained a lot from reading his blog but never bought any of this products yet -- however if i was a university student again I WISH someone had bought his stuff for me.  

 

I have no issue with people who are going to sell e-books or software (such as people on this board with their own mailing lists or books).  Some of the people on this board are employed or hoping to be employed selling Chinese learning services and I hope you have great products and I will be your customer someday.   I am on some of your mailing lists and someday you may convert me to be a customer.  Be authentic and tell me the real ups and downs and I will consider rewarding you with my money.

[imron]

For serious learners, what's important is not how much you can learn in 3 months, but how much you know after 5 years.

Best of luck to this guy on his venture, I'm sure he'll learn loads and hopefully he can maintain that over time.

Not sure what Benny's mandarin is like these days.

[icebear]

It may come across and being presented as such, but I think it has more to do with commitment, discipline and smart study methods then really being smart. In three months they may very well commit more time then the average student commits in a year. I think most people who commit a comparable effort with the same discipline can reach such results.  

This. I think the main value in the project is showing people, including some discouraged students, what is possible with a genuine commitment of time. 

 

I only briefly browsed some of the other topics and those of Tim Ferris. I think their advice about spending time more efficiently, reducing the amount of time on useless activities (e.g. checking email or a news website twenty times a day when once or twice is more than enough) is highly applicable to many Chinese learners. I get the impression (along with my experience for some time, and still occasionally) that many Chinese learners simply hem and haw about how to study rather than cracking a book and putting in a hours honest work. Those that put in that time consistently generally have good results. Its about time commitment and decent habits to use that time relatively effectively, if not perfectly.

[Silent]

 

Frankly, I bought Benny Lewis's product and it's junk.  The guy is selling false promises (his fluency definition is not real), doesn't actually have a technique worth learning (apart from "talk to a native speaker") and sells himself far too much.

I think this is oftentimes the case when big claims are made. The internet is full with monstrous claims about all kind of subjects in an attempt to sell a product, in the end they can largely be divided in two groups. Most of them are a scam and don't add value, the rest boils down to 'pay the price' in that you need to put in time and effort and/or 'sell your soul' by doing things you really don't want to.

 

 

Tim Ferris is more (brutally) honest but is really really committed to 80/20 which means he is ruthless with stuff that isn't going to get him over the bump of effectiveness to achieve 80% of what he wants.

I think this is a good approach, If you get 80% of the added value by investing only 20% you can learn 5 times as much and get 4 times the added value then when you commit to 'perfection'. Some people here have a goal of fluency defined as 'indistinguishable from native',  this takes a virtually unlimited effort, a lifetime. Drop the demands on accent, allow some minor mistakes and accept you need a dictionary every once in a while and only a few years of full time dedicated study may get you there. You gained virtually all the added value but saved many years you can commit to something else.

[gato]

See MIT students discussing his MIT claim:

http://isawyou.mit.edu/post.php?id=6400

[bluetortilla]

I think our two admins' posts were both well said. Call me a silly idealist, but i'm in it for the culture and for the love thing, not the money. Really! E-Commerce? ha

 

Anyway (I could have actually ranted on that one but I didn't), five years I think too is a good measure of how one has dedicated himself or herself to the study of a language. You don't have to be super smart or anything (and just wanting to be smarter won't make you so), but you do need passion, discipline, and consistency. You need to talk to whole lot of native speakers as well, and for most of us Chinese will be a part of our daily life. Language is not just an academic exercise; it's also situational, functional, improvisational and precludes human relationships in which the language is the target one. Language is a megamarathon- not a 50 meter dash. And I would challenge anyone to give me good solid evidence to the contrary. Speed learning has always been c*** and always will be. You will forget even faster than you crammed.

 

I am glad, after centuries of ignorance, to finally see Chinese as a, if not 'the' major subject in second languages to be studied besides English. Chinese has more native speakers than any other language in the world and if you take your time with it reveals treasure troves of history, stories, and civilization. A lifetime of study doesn't really suffice. It's nice to see it having it's day in the sun. Not surprising to find flies in the ointment here and there. 

 

 

FRILL

[bluetortilla]

Why does 

 

FRILL

 

keep showing up in my post even though I edit it out?

 

FRILL

[Guest realmayo]

Maybe there's a cultural thing, that in the US in particular it can be seen as normal and admirable that whatever you do, you'll try to make a bit of money out of it. The guy could be 100% genuine, but as soon as I see he wants money, I'm sceptical about everything.