Which is the best Chinese linguistics book?

[Elizabeth_rb]

I'd like to get into Chinese linguistics books and have read and enjoyed the DeFrancis book.  In your opinion, which of the others is the 'if you read no other, read this' text?  I'll probably get a few in time, but as funds are a bit short at the mo, I'd just like to get one for the time being.

 

Thanks!

[Gharial]

As you may've noticed from my shelfies (shelvies?), I've got DeFrancis (I guess you mean his The Chinese Language: Fact and Fantasy), and three other general survey-style books: Ramsey, Norman, and Sun. I think Ramsey's is the most accessible, useful and engagingly-written of those other three (he even gives DeFrancis a run for his money), and pretty informative too (moreso, or at least more immediately plunderable, than DeFrancis). Norman still seems to be the standard reference though, but I find him a bit heavy going TBH. Sun's book is valuable in parts but devotes a bit too much space to some "too-linguistic" matters IMHO (see for example a thread I started some years back about his examples of third-tone sandhi).

 

I haven't in the above mentioned some other books on my shelves, such as Daniel Kane's, as that is a bit too much of a hit-and-miss "miscellany" and not quite worth the money (again, just IMHO), mind you it's cheap enough IIRC. Then, Li and Thompson's grammar has a fair few linguistic details but ultimately is obviously more of a grammar than a general linguistic survey, while Mobo Gao's Mandarin Chinese failed to engage me (I have yet to finish it) and lacked the detail of Ramsey etc. It gets reasonable reviews on Amazon and may have a few sociolinguistic tidbits or whatnot, but it seemed to me to be more say A-level-informative at most than degree-level. Lastly, Ping Chen's Modern Chinese: History and Sociolinguistics appears well worth a look, but I only have scans of it (must get the actual book, as I find paper easier on the eyes).

[OneEye]

I thought Robert S. Ramsey's The Language of China was pretty good. Sun Chaofen's Chinese: A Linguistic Introduction is often recommended, but I haven't read it even though I own it (it's sitting in a box in the US). There's Jerry Norman's Chinese, which I remember being irritated by for some reason (of course, it's been a while).

 

You could always follow this syllabus if you want. Seems like a decent intro.

 

edit: Seems Gharial beat me to it. Interesting that we listed the same books.

[Gharial]

Ooh hi OneEye, I came across a thread of yours (while searching for 'Chaofen' [~ Sun] and that tone sandhi thread of mine). Elizabeth might get something out of the suggestions there also:

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/23622-chinese-linguistics-books/

[Elizabeth_rb]

Thanks guys!  

 

Yes, I saw that thread (was a good girl and did a search before starting a new topic), but as it was asking for a number of texts and I wanted the one to buy if you bought no others, I thought a new thread could be excused.

 

IIRC??  Sorry, as you can see, my acronyms are not too hot...

[Gharial]

If I Remember Correctly. Sorry, I shouldn't really use stuff like that! o8-)'

 

I just remembered Unger's Ideogram. As you liked DeFrancis I'm sure you'll like this one too (but it's somewhat more demanding than DeFrancis and really is mainly about the nature of Chinese [and Japanese] writing). But as for "the One", I asked Neo too and he confirmed what OneEye and I said: probably Ramsey is your best bet.

[Elizabeth_rb]

I don't mind acronyms as long as I understand 'em and folk don't mind my asking if I don't!

 

Thanks.  I'll keep an eye out for the next decent offer on the Ramsey book, although the amount of time devoted to other Chinese languages isn't quite what I'm after.  I wonder...

[Gharial]

Don't let the languages plural of Ramsey's title and content put you off: his survey of the history and features of the national standard (i.e. Mandarin) is pretty detailed and can stand alongside any of the others mentioned, and his coverage of Chinese generally makes up the first half of the book (some 150 pages). The obvious bonus of those languages plural is that you get lots of lovely info on the other (minority) languages of China, and this is where most other books can't stand alongside Ramsey! (FWIW the minority coverage is 125 pages. The remainder of the book, almost 40 pages, is appendices, very detailed notes, separate bibliographies, and index). So you'll be getting umpteen birds with the one stone.

[Elizabeth_rb]

I see what you mean and I'm not totally uninterested.  It's just that my plan (health allowing - unlikely, but can try anyway), is to take the local uni's MA in Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language in which there's quite an element of Mandarin linguistics.  So, if I can focus on Mandarin, so much the better (although the other are interesting too).  Also, these books are so hideously expensive.  Maybe I should post a 'wanted' ad in the classifieds.

[gato]

Still cheaper than Scott Young's book on Learning More Studying Less.

[Gharial]

Ooh, yes, they are a bit pricey even second-hand (just checked on Amazon UK). Nowadays you're paying second-hand what it probably cost me new 15 or more years ago! But if you're planning on doing an MA in TCFL then it might be better to wait and see what their recommended booklist contains first linguistics-wise (hopefully nothing too hideously dry and theoretical LOL). I guess if they're that serious about the linguistics element then there will be books plural, i.e. specialist sub-reading, rather than just a single one-volume survey, and the likes of Ramsey may not be quite theoretical-detailed enough to get you up to sufficient speed in the area(s) concerned. Still, that's what university libraries are for (to borrow books).

 

@gato:

[Elizabeth_rb]

Still cheaper than Scott Young's book on Learning More Studying Less.

 

Ye-es, but I wasn't planning to buy that and the fact doesn't alter my lack of cash...  

[Elizabeth_rb]

Still, that's what university libraries are for.

 

True, although I normally like to have my own copies of key texts.  However, Sir is still a PhD student for the next 18 months, so I should check the library catalogue and see what I can have him borrow.  Having said that, I don't want to be pinching books that registered students will need..  I'm trying to get a head start in my background knowledge so that, if I can join the MA, I'll find it a little lighter going.  So much for the theory at least!!

[gato]

Could you borrow it from a public library?

[OneEye]

Ooh hi OneEye, I came across a thread of yours

 

I completely forgot about that thread! That was so long ago! 

[Elizabeth_rb]

Sadly, not.  The local city library doesn't seem to have any of the books I want and a search for 'Chinese linguistics' drew a blank.

[Gharial]

Liz, I'll scan it for you and send it along with my "Secrets of Chinese Study" novella for just £50!

[Elizabeth_rb]

   

 

'Liz'?  Ugh!  What did I do to deserve that??

[Gharial]

We aren't all friendly and informal enough yet?

 

Elizabetha it is then!

 

Note to self: Must...wean myself...off of...smileys!

[Elizabeth_rb]

Tee-hee!  No, it's not that, I just hate that particular short...