Drills for improving 2nd and 3rd tone recognition

[andyfastow]

I'm having trouble recognizing the distinction between second tones and third tones. Even when I listen to single syllables in isolation I can only identify maybe 65% accurately. With a two syllable combination of a second and third tone I am about as accurate as a coin toss at identifying which is which.

 

Searching through this forum yesterday I found a link to this helpful resource from Sinosplice: http://www.sinosplice.com/learn-chinese/tone-pair-drills

 

I've set up a playlist with the 2nd and 3rd tone mp3s that just loops one at a time until I hit next. I listen a few (sometimes many) times to a single syllable and then try to guess whether it is 2 or 3. Sometimes I slow the playback speed down to try to really hear the differences between the two tones, which often sounds very subtle to me. I did this for a couple of hours yesterday and plan to do it for an hour or two each day until I start improving.

 

Is this a reasonable strategy for improving my ability to recognize tones? What other strategies might be helpful? Are there any other resources similar to the Sinosplice one linked above that I can use as I begin to memorize which words are which tone in the current batch of mp3s? All suggestions are appreciated, thank you.

[AdamD]

When you listen to single syllables in isolation, are they spoken in complete isolation, or are they clipped from part of a word or sentence?

 

Tones don't always behave themselves in the wild. A 3rd that precedes another 3rd becomes a 2nd, for example. If we know more about the material you're using, we should be able to help you much more effectively.

 

As far as your strategy goes: Absolutely, as long as you understand fully what you're listening to and how the tones behave in their immediate context.

[andyfastow]

They are spoken in complete isolation so I believe they all have a full third tone. The mp3s from the Sinosplice link above are meant for beginner-intermediate tone drills so I assume they don't throw any sandhi curveballs in the single syllable mp3s... then again, I can't really tell by listening 

[AdamD]

It sounds like you're playing the sounds in the 1-Char Adj folder, am I right? The tones there are clear and isolated, but the tones in the 2-Char Adj folder are full of sandhi curveballs, e.g. bao3shou3.mp3 sounds like 2nd–3rd, and hao3ting1.mp3 could be construed as 4th–1st.

 

In the 1-Char Adj folder, all the 3rd tone syllables dip slightly before they come up again. All the 2nd tone syllables go straight up without that initial dip.

[andyfastow]

Yes, that's right, I'm using just the 1-Char Adj folder right now. Thanks for confirming they are a full third tone. I really struggle to hear that dip.

[AdamD]

In single tone speech, 3rd tones tend to be a tiny bit longer than 2nd tones as well. The 2nd shoots pretty much straight up but the 3rd dwells slightly.

 

It's tough going for a while, especially if you're not used to tonal languages. Part of what helped me hear them correctly was learning to pronounce them correctly, so it might help you to do single-tone speech drills and be assessed by a friend.

[imron]

In single tone speech, 3rd tones tend to be a tiny bit longer than 2nd tones as well. The 2nd shoots pretty much straight up but the 3rd dwells slightly.

Also note that the 2nd tone starts at a slightly higher pitch than the 3rd tone.

[stoney]

Sorry if this is a bit off topic, but when I'm listening to audio books or other audio examples, the 3rd tones at the end of sentences seem to lose the 3rd tone and it becomes a 4th-ish tone. Kind of like it's a lazy drop-off ending to the sentence, Does anyone else experience this?

[andyfastow]

Thanks for the suggestions. I actually noticed a slight improvement doing the drill this morning. I'll keep at it.

[hedwards]

Sorry for the late reply, since you're already using Sinosplice stuff, you might want to take a look at: http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2008/01/21/seeing-the-tones-of-mandarin-chinese-with-praat

 

I need to get back to using that, but it helps a great deal with keeping me honest about whether or not I'm really hearing the sounds that I think I'm hearing and moreover whether or not I'm producing something that's acceptable.

[andyfastow]

Oh, awesome! Thanks hedwards! I was just thinking the other day that I wish I had some visual confirmation of the tones I'm producing so I can better check them on my own when I'm not talking to a tutor or LE partner. I'm definitely going to check that out.

[hedwards]

You're welcome. Now that I think about it, I should try to find some diagrams of the mouth and throat to go with some of the vowels and whatnot.

 

I find the aspect of the tones that gives me the most trouble is that I'm trying to change pitch with volume rather than with tone. Obviously, that doesn't work and praat does a pretty good job of at least showing me what I'm actually doing.