Am I learning the wrong way?

[Koonder]

A few months ago, I started to learn Chinese words that I had taken from the HSK lists.

I had read a lot of good things about SRS, so I tried out Anki. Fastforward 4,2 months later, I am now at hsk 2 level, and according to anki's stats 40% of hsk 1 and 2 cards are 'matured', and 60% of the cards are 'young + learn'. At this moment, I can vaguely recognize 295 words. Only 40% of the total cards are 'matured'. In these 4,2 months, I have diligently studied the words, but have not progressed much at all. 

 

In short:

I have been doing anki for 4,2 months.

According to the stats 295/4,2 months = 2 words a day.

Currently, anki is my sole method of learning Chinese.

 

Short term goals:

About 1,000 words memorized in 1 year.

But that is not going to happen at this rate. 

 

What am I doing wrong?

[Lu]

In short, lack of context.

Anki is great for reinforcing vocabulary, but it's not possible to learn Chinese by simply cramming words. You need a rounded approach: start with pronunciation and pinyin. Get a textbook, and a teacher if you can, irl or online. Learn sentences, learn to speak, learn grammar and patterns. Watch movies, read things. And yes, also learn words, but only as a part of the whole approach. Once you learn how words are actually used, have used them yourself, etc, you will find they are not only a lot easier to remember, but they are also actually useful to speak (or write) Chinese.

A recent thread has some useful advice, perhaps start with this post. The OP there was similarly putting in a lot of effort with diminishing results.

[renzhe]

Currently, anki is my sole method of learning Chinese.

Am I learning the wrong way?

I'm afraid that yes, you are learning the wrong way.

Chinese is a language, not a list of words. You need to learn its phonology, grammar, writing system, sentence patterns, as well as vocabulary.

You need a proper language-learning approach. A textbook. A grammar book. Graded readers (on top of what your textbook provides). Listening practice. Preferably also a tutor or a language partner to ask questions and who can correct you.

[roddy]

The good news is, you've come to the right place!

[Koonder]

Thanks!

 

I now know what to do, but have one more question. 

In the topic that Lu has posted here some people claim to study 40 words a day, and it seems like, atleast to me, that the average learner on this forum study atleast 10 words a day. I also want to study at that rate, but I can't; it's really difficult for me to memorize new vocabulary and to seperate similair characters. Some people opt for mnemonic, and learn similiar characters at the same time. So how much time do you spend on learning new vocabulary? Do you also write the charcters when you try to memorize them?

 

First thing that I am going to do is incorporate reading in my study. I definitely need to be more exposed to Chinese characters. Using anki for 5 - 10 minutes a day won't bring me far.

[renzhe]

1) 40 new words per day is doable for short periods, but not sustainable over long periods of time. You have a choice between learning in bursts followed by rest periods during which you review the learned words using Anki, or a slow-and-steady approach. It's a matter of preference, really, average speed of both approaches is about the same.

2) Like Lu says, context will help. Mnemonics can also help

3) 10 minutes of Anki is not a lot. But also consider that vocabulary flashcards are just a useful tool, and most of your study time should be spent doing something else -- textbook and textbook materials in the beginning, reading and listening of easy native material once you're at the intermediate level.

[Lu]

Don't know about the average learner here, but 10 words per day for a long period is still quite a lot. You just need to find what works best for you, taking into account how much time & energy you have and how well you can memorise words. If the result is that you can manage to learn only 2 new words a day, then just do that. If you prefer to cram 100 words in two days and then slowly 'digest' them over the next two weeks, also fine. Personally I have my daily Anki limit at 5 words (also because I'm not making that many new flashcards...), resulting in at most 10 or so minutes of studying per day, and that works well for me. It's still adding up.

But for you, I think for the time being you should perhaps slow way down on the word learning and instead first learn how to 1) pronounce the ones you already know well and 2) learn to use them in sentences.

[roddy]

"You just need to find what works best for you"

But while you're doing that, do something that works reasonably well for pretty much anyone - get a textbook, with audio, and perhaps any associated video or workbooks, and do as much regular study as you can sustain in the long term. 

[tysond]

Hmmm...  10 words a day for a year, really learned, able to pronounce, able to read and write and use in grammatical sentences -- you will be able to attend business meetings in Chinese and understand most of what's going on and contribute your own thoughts.

 

But language skill isn't about just memorizing vocab.  I mostly use Anki to remember things I have learned.  Not to learn things that are new.

Anki is about not forgetting.... not about learning for the first/second/third time.  Once you know the thing, it's great to put it in Anki.  

 

Realistically, I think you need to build a base of the really core 500 words which are used in all sorts of ways.  And then you need to build a core of the character components and a skill in memorizing them.  Plus a skill in pronunciation and an automatic listening skill (it takes time to build).   Plus a degree of exposing yourself to Chinese audio/video.

 

If you have a good base like this, then you can go on a vocabulary rampage and do 10 words a day for a while and it will be a lot easier.   You won't be learning in isolation, you'll be adding to a web of knowledge.

[imron]

Short term goals:

About 1,000 words memorized in 1 year.

But that is not going to happen at this rate. 

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

You either need to adjust your expectations, or adjust your rate of learning. 1,000 words memorized in 1 year is ~3 words a day.  If currently you are only doing 2 words a day then there is no way you can meet that goal.  You need to decide if hitting that goal is worth spending extra time learning per day or if you don't have the time and need to aim slightly lower.

 

Using anki for 5 - 10 minutes a day won't bring me far.

Ideally you should be looking to spend maybe 30mins a day learning.  And you should be doing that everyday.  I also agree that a textbook is a good way to do that.  Learn from the textbook and then put the words in Anki as you go.  Do it every day.

 

Don't worry about people learning 40 words a day.  As renzhe said, they learn 40 words a day for short periods and then tend to burn out and stop.  You're much better off to choose a sustainable rate and to do it every day.  Use time as your multiplier, rather than words learnt, just make sure you are studying every day.  Use a tool like dontbreakthechain to help.

[renzhe]

As renzhe said, they learn 40 words a day for short periods and then tend to burn out and stop.

Well, some of them.

Some of them will cram for a short period, then review these characters for a while until they "sit", then learn another batch. For example, I used to learn words over the weekend when I had a lot of time for cramming, and I'd use the weekdays for reviewing, because I'm usually tired from work. I'd learn many new words over holidays, and then spend considerable time reviewing them.

In the end, the speed is the same when taken over long periods of time. It's a matter of preference, really.

[Silent]

 

Short term goals:

About 1,000 words memorized in 1 year.

But that is not going to happen at this rate. 

 

What am I doing wrong?

As many already mentioned, a more allround approach mostly works better.

 

Personally I'ld say 1000 words in a year (3 a day) is very well doable, but fairly pointless and you should probably spend more then 5  or 10 minutes a day.

 

What are you going to do with just vocabulary? What's your motivation to learn Chinese? Personally I feel there's no real need to have a perfectly balanced approach as in Chinese text and speech are far more detached from each other then in most languages I think it's reasonable to concentrate on reading/vocabulary. A reasonable approach might be:

- 3-5 SRS sessions from 5-10 minutes or so spread out over the day.

- Start reading, at least 30-60 minutes a day (It helps review the learned words, put's the vocabulary in context and is far more pleasant then intensive study)

- Study grammar for a couple of hours a week e.g. 4 times a week half an hour.

 

I think that approach would bring you to 1000 words and a reasonable reading skill within a year.

[Koonder]

After reading the importance of a textbook over and over again, I have decided to grab NPCR workbook & textbook. Unfortunely, only the first edition is available in my country; however, some peope are saying that only the layout is changed.

 

I will also change my study schedule.

5 - 10 min Anki

15 min workbook & textbook

5 min writing characters

 

When I hit the 500 words mark according to Anki, I will start reading for 5 - 10 min a day.

Goal is thus reaching the 500 words mark in 2 - 3 months.

 

Some people might find that I should increase my study time much more than I have done now, but I think I should make a schedule that is sustainable for a long period of time.

[renzhe]

It's the intense memorisation that is not sustainable. With most other things, you can invest as much time as you wish -- you will not burn out. You just need to switch activities once you start feeling that you're losing your focus.

This happens quickly in the beginning, but intermediate learners can watch TV or read Chinese books for hours.

[roddy]

Why are you learning to write? If you don't know, or just assume you have to, read this (or search, there must be more than one discussion).

Congratulations on the textbook purchase.

[Koonder]

I want to incorpate writing because I think it will improve my recall memory of the characters, and it will make memorizing new vocabulary much easier.

Of the 295 words that I have learned through Anki, I can only reconigze most of the words. So I hope that I can speed up learning new vocabulary by writing a few minutes a day. In 2-3 months, I will see if it makes memorizing new vocabulary easier.

[jbradfor]

Personally, I think being able to write is fun, and impresses the heck out of native Chinese.  That in itself is worth it. 

 

I assume you're heard of Skritter (http://www.skritter.com/)?

[tysond]

Agreed.  I learn to write, although I know it slows down my learning of everything else.  I feel it does strengthen memory a lot though.

 

Also, it's so much fun to be able to write.  

[Koonder]

Two months have passed, and I have to confess that I didn't study daily. NPCR is a good purchase because it forces me to read a lot.

Another thing that I have noticed is that it takes a lot of time to fully learn the characters of the words. IMO, reading much doesn't enable you to learn the characters, so that you can visualize the characters/words in your mind, or on your paper, albeit with bad handwriting. E.g. I can read the names in my NPCR textbook easily, since these names pop up frequently, but if you asked me to describe or write these characters then I can't do it. I am not able to recall these words off the top of my head, even though I can easily recognize those characters. Has anyone expecienced this?

[Lu]

IMO, reading much doesn't enable you to learn the characters, so that you can visualize the characters/words in your mind, or on your paper, albeit bad handwriting. E.g. I can read the names in my NPCR textbook easily, since these words pop up frequently, but if you ask me to describe or write these characters then I can't do it. I am not able to recall these words on the top of my head, even though I can easily reconigze those characters. Has anyone expecience this?

All the time. Most characters can't be learned by simply reading them.