An Arranged Marriage

[imron]

Girls can't marry until they are 20 according to Chinese law.

That doesn't necessarily stop them - they might not be 'legally' married, but they will have the banquet and be 'socially' married.

[Nathan Mao]

Since the communists took over way back in 1949, the trend had been for men and women to both marry sometime between 26 and 28.

 

However, since the gender live birth rate has skewed, there are more men than there are women.  But despite some aspects of equality in China, men still have a great deal of financial power and status.

 

As such, the age of marriage is skewing.  Men are finding it more difficult to marry until they have amassed some status and wealth.  有房有车 is a significant entry in dating profiles for men.  Without it, a man is swimming against the current.  But if he has some other advantage, like a big city 户口, he will still have his choice of women. 

 

For women, however, their main marketability is beauty and fertility. 

 

You'd think that with the gender skew, that a 30+ year-old-woman would have an easier time. 

In fact, she has a tougher time.

 

Any woman over 30 or so is called a 剩女, a "leftover", or a spinster in our parlance.  If she isn't married by the time she's 30 or so, people will start to wonder what is wrong with her, so they won't even give her much of a chance in dating.  Not to mention, the child/family-centered Chinese society is very aware of how fertility declines rapidly after age 32.  So most parents wouldn't want their son to marry a woman over 30 and risk not having grandkids.

 

That situation is the driving force behind 咱结婚吧, tv serial currently very popular in mainland China.

 

So a guy at 35, 有房有车, looking to marry...is he going to look at a woman his age who will not satisfy his parents and may not be able to give him a child, or someone younger who he can attract due to his status and earning?  But if the 28 year olds are all taken, he'll look at 26...

 

So over the last 10 years, women in China are getting married younger and younger, but also demanding more and more material comforts.  The prettier the girl, the more she knows she command.

 

Of course, there are exceptions to all this.  Nothing is universal.

 

But an older man with a good job/income and some status or residence right in a big city will have his pick of women.  A westerner (with the accompanying, tantalizing hope of getting a ticket out of China) will also garner a great deal of attention.

 

 

But older women don't abandon the hope of marriage, either.  Reality is reality, but loneliness is loneliness. 

 

The tradition in China has been for women to retire at 50-55, and men to retire between 60 and 65, especially government workers. 

If a woman doesn't have a husband, she probably won't be able to retire as early, and will have to work longer and harder, and sleep alone.  So a 35-, 40-, or 45-year old woman may end up extremely desperate.

 

My wife has 3 close female friends. 

1 has two kids but divorced 10 years ago.  She describes herself as 花痴。 She is desperate for a man.

1 has never married.  She has always wanted to, but has some personality problems, and probably was overweight even before reaching age 30...dunno.  In any case, she absolutely was 花痴 previously, but gave up and brainwashed herself into a multi-level marketing cult.

1 married and has a child, but her husband got a mistress, then openly lived with the mistress in disregard of his wife, and I think the latest is they will get divorced.  The friend felt she had no choice but to accept the mistress, because at least she and her child got financial support.  Yet even being cool with that didn't save her from divorce.  She's in her 40s and despondent.

My wife was a 剩女.  After we started dating (online, long-distance), her mother sat her down and said, "Enough.  You failed to find a husband, and now I'm going to find you one."  My wife said, "Wait one year.  I've got one on the line...if I can't reel him in by next Spring Festival, then go ahead."

That was almost 8 years ago...

 

Obviously, these situations aren't universal, nor can the lessons from them be applied universally.

 

Just be careful out there.  There are cultural assumptions bred into bones on both sides, and you can get hurt, or deal hurt, both unexpectedly and unintentionally.

 

Talk stuff out as much as you can.

[abcdefg]

Excellent summary and overview, @Nathan Mao. I always learn something from your posts.

 

"Wait one year.  I've got one on the line...if I can't reel him in by next Spring Festival, then go ahead."

 

Several years ago I dated a 剩女, a 32-year old provincial schoolteacher who I met when she came to Kunming to do a graduate degree in her subject.

 

The whole time we were together, but especially early on, it was like being interviewed for a job or even "profiled." We would be out for an afternoon hike and she would be continually asking odd "screening" questions like whether I preferred lakes or seashore, mountains or fields, tall trees or decorative shrubs. Seemed like pop-psychology stuff.

 

Even went home with her to meet the parents over Spring Festival, and that went OK. But her fervent hope, frequently expressed in the strongest of terms, was that I would eventually return with her to the small town where she was from and settle down since she didn't much like city life. After I had seen the small town, I found that to be such an unattractive prospect that we soon broke up.

 

Life in China as a mature single male has been a wonderful adventure, and I've enjoyed most of it. Couldn't agree more with your statement below.

 

There are cultural assumptions bred into bones on both sides, and you can get hurt, or deal hurt, both unexpectedly and unintentionally.

[Meng Lelan]

Experience has taught me that I make a pretty decent boyfriend but a terrible husband.

 

 

婚礼是爱情的丧礼。 

[abcdefg]

Well said Meng Lelan (smile.)

 

Your Chinese is way better than mine, so wanted to ask whether that can also be phrased as 婚礼是爱情的坟墓，which is how I've heard the same thought expressed. 

[Meng Lelan]

Oh, but the poetic in me likes the 礼 . 

[icebear]

Girls can't marry until they are 20 according to Chinese law.

Laws often don't matter much in China, especially rural China. When out in Qinghai and Gansu most drivers I met had married by 18, with wives 1-3 years younger, and had kids by 18/19 at the latest.

[abcdefg]

I didn't know whether 婚礼是爱情的丧礼 or 婚礼是爱情的坟墓 might be a famous quote from a book or poem or play that I didn't recognize because of still being only semi-literate and not well read.

[Mindmaxd]

婚姻（marriage） 是爱情的坟墓，not 婚礼 wedding。

[Meng Lelan]

婚姻（marriage） 是爱情的坟墓，not 婚礼 wedding。

 

 

 

That's the correct way of saying this saying. The way I twisted around this phrase in #24 was because I like how the two different 礼 get paired up in the same sentence the way two different persons get paired up in the same, uh, situation. 

 

 相亲 is very common in China I think. One reason is that the parents want their child to marry someone quickly because they think their child are old enough to get married, another reason is that maybe parents want their child marry someone who meet the needs of them. 

 

 

What #20 said. Doesn't seem like 爱情 is essential for 婚礼 in this situation?

[abcdefg]

Thanks for the correction, Max. I wrote it the way I did because I didn't know any better. Not being a poet, now I can remember and use it the usual and customary way.

[Yorin]

 

I haven't been through this because I'm a student now, but maybe when I'm at the age of 28 or 29 and don't have a boyfriend, my parents will arrange a 相亲 for me. I hope that day will never come.

 

And if that would happen, would you feel obligated to do as they wish?

This topic just makes me sad.

If there is one thing to learn from it, then it is to try not to become like your parents, not to treat your own children like this when the time comes.

[Meng Lelan]

I don't think this is a Chinese only situation. Rushing into bad marriages to make everyone else happy happens in the west too. 

[Nathan Mao]

 

And if that would happen, would you feel obligated to do as they wish?

孝顺 isn't just a word.

 

Not everyone fulfills their 孝顺 duties, of course, but there is significant shame associated with disappointing your parents in Chinese society.

 

The US is an individual-based society.  China is a family-based society.

 

Judging one society by the standards of the other will result in cultural misunderstanding and miscalculation.

[Yorin]

I'm not a US citizen. Though I'm not Chinese either, I think I have a right to talk about my opinion on China, about the good, the bad and the ugly things.

I have a number of Chinese friends who are suffering from the pressure that is put onto them by their families, and Sharon here, who seems to be from China, obviously isn't happy with arranged marriages either. A tradition that makes a lot of young people have a miserable life is not a good tradition.

[Nathan Mao]

Of course you have the right to discuss.

 

But it is only good/bad/ugly from your perspective.  To someone raised with that concept in their bones, it might be the opposite.

 

Eh.  I guess my bias is to judge less and try to understand more.  Then again, I don't really like the multiculturalist notion that "all cultures are equally good/fine", either, so maybe I'm full of crap.

 

I just think it more helpful to try to understand why Chinese people feel obligated to go so far to fulfill their parents' will, because language and culture are inextricably related.  Understanding this whole bundle of obligations helps to understand words/concepts like 孝顺 and 丢脸 on a much deeper level than if you just look at those concepts from a non-Chinese point of view.

 

Yes, the Chinese concept of filial piety brings some pain and pressure to the young.  But it also brings much more joy, caring, and closeness to the elderly.

 

Everything is a trade-off, and just because Chinese society makes some choices you wouldn't, doesn't make it bad or ugly.

[Yorin]

I'm not saying Chinese society is shitty compared to western society or anything like that.

Otherwise I wouldn't be as interested in Chinese culture as I am.

There are good and bad things about every society. This just happens to be a forum about China.

 

Of course when I state my opinion, it's just from my perspective.

Maybe I do have a bias, as I'm not an elderly person. Then again, a lot of Chinese men might have a

different opinion about this if they were female.

[Lu]

Then again, a lot of Chinese men might have a different opinion about this if they were female.

On arranged marriages? Would they? I imagine it sucks for men as well as for women. Men also like to pick their own partners, no? Of course, in China, they still have the option of picking their own partner after being married, but that's not really a great outcome either, what with an unhappy wife on one end and a mistress who wants to be more than a mistress on the other.

[Yorin]

Of course it sucks for both.

The pressure on women to marry before they are "too old" is just much higher than the pressure on men.

There is of course a biological reason for it, but that doesn't make it any better.

[abcdefg]

Anybody have experience with 红娘 (traditional matchmakers.) None of my married friends have ever mentioned using one. Wondering if they are as common as they once were.