An Arranged Marriage

[Demonic_Duck]

I just think it more helpful to try to understand why Chinese people feel obligated to go so far to fulfill their parents' will, because language and culture are inextricably related.  Understanding this whole bundle of obligations helps to understand words/concepts like 孝顺 and 丢脸 on a much deeper level than if you just look at those concepts from a non-Chinese point of view.

Agree with this. On the whole I still find many aspects of Chinese culture bizarre, and sometimes even wrong, but occasionally (normally after venting to a Chinese person and hearing their response), something just "clicks" with me, and I realise there was a lot more to some seemingly arcane concept or tradition than I'd previously realised.

 

On arranged marriages? Would they? I imagine it sucks for men as well as for women. Men also like to pick their own partners, no? Of course, in China, they still have the option of picking their own partner after being married, but that's not really a great outcome either, what with an unhappy wife on one end and a mistress who wants to be more than a mistress on the other.

I imagine that in the enlightened culture of the distant future (assuming the frankly unlikely possibility that we don't drive ourselves to extinction in the meantime) marriages or equivalent long-term arrangements will exist mainly for child-rearing purposes, and non-procreational sex will be "divorced" (pun partially intended) from this entirely, such that most people will have multiple partners, regardless of their marital status. Those who choose to remain truly monogamous will be viewed as old-fashioned and eccentrics.

[Lu]

I imagine that in the enlightened culture of the distant future (assuming the frankly unlikely possibility that we don't drive ourselves to extinction in the meantime) marriages or equivalent long-term arrangements will exist mainly for child-rearing purposes, and non-procreational sex will be "divorced" (pun partially intended) from this entirely, such that most people will have multiple partners, regardless of their marital status. Those who choose to remain truly monogamous will be viewed as old-fashioned and eccentrics.

I rather doubt it. Just to start from a practical point of view: sex is most enjoyable with someone you really like; living together with someone you really like is a good choice; children are more easily raised with two people than with one; so one raises children with the person one lives with and really likes; and by that point that person might as well also be the biological parent of said children. (This is assuming that both partners are of a different sex. If partners are of the same sex, the reasoning is slightly different, but it's still nice & convenient to both sleep with and live with someone you really like, and raise children, if you wish to do so, with that same person.)

Many people perhaps would like to have multiple partners, but firstly most people are less eager to have their partner(s) also have multiple partners; and secondly, many people will have trouble finding more than one partner because they are not attractive enough (be it in terms of money, looks or personality) and/or don't have the time and energy to pursue new partners. God knows it's hard enough for many people to find one partner and keep one relationship going, let alone more than one. I don't know where people with multiple partners find the time.

And all this is probably rather Western-centric. Clearly there are and have been cultures that manage polygamy and polyandry and such, so it's possible I'm wrong.

[Demonic_Duck]

Perhaps it wasn't obvious, but I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek with that comment. That said, I do often think if we could get rid of jealousy and insecurity and the more practical concerns of sexual disease etc. most people would probably choose to abandon monogamy.

[Lu]

if we could get rid of jealousy and insecurity

That's a rather big if... Might be easier to just wish for world peace directly :-p

[Demonic_Duck]

Hence the tongue-in-cheekness ;)

 

Anyway, seems like I've gone and derailed another topic...

 

@abcdefg: sad to hear of your plight, seems like you're taking a very philosophical attitude to what's obviously a pretty crappy situation. On the plus side, at least you're not her.

[abcdefg]

@abcdefg: sad to hear of your plight, seems like you're taking a very philosophical attitude to what's obviously a pretty crappy situation.

 

I honestly feel that what is best for her at this point in time is more important than what's best for me. She needs a husband who can improve the quality of her next 50 or 60 years and help with the care of her parents during their declining years. A 95 year-old 奶奶 grandmother, whom she adores, is also in the picture.

 

Whereas, by contrast, I don't really need anything, though I would like to have a girlfriend for a few months or years, basically until we get tired of each other. My desires are frivolous compared with hers. I stand in awe of her maturity and practical frame of mind.

 

Being back home in her village this last week or so has given her a chance to assist in the rice planting, serving as a reminder of the hard life she is hoping to leave behind.

 

[deathtrap]

I love the way her clothing contrasts with what she is doing at that point. Cultivating rice plantations which was normally reserved for the lower classes while wearing a modern fashionable hat and clothes. I don't mean to say anything about her, just the way the farming contrasts with her clothing. 'tis a cool pic.

[gato]

Nice 梯田 . Have you visited?

[abcdefg]

@Deathtrap #47 and @Gato #48 -- She's Hani Minority 哈尼族 and the location is indeed the remote 梯田 country of southern Yunnan, between Yuanyang 元阳 and Luchun 绿春。I have not visited her home town, though I did go to the 元阳梯田 earlier this year.

 

I asked her a little more about the snapshot and she said she was just fooling around for an hour or so to keep her hand in, so she "didn't forget how to plant straight." It was sort of a lark on a family outing, not really a stint of hard labor. But she added that she actually did know how to plant and harvest rice and had been doing it off and on 从小 since she was a young kid.

 

This snapshot is from my trip.

[danielfd]

Recently I have been thru this traumatic experience myself...

 

Met this Chinese girl in NYC.

She is from Xining, Qinghai.

 

She was in the US as Aupair.

We were dating for a short period but then she had to go back to China because her VISA expired.

She went back to Chengdu to finish College.

We kept in touch & went to visit her in China for her graduation.

 

We spent 3 months on vacations traveling all around China & Thailand.

She used to call it our honeymoon...

Was telling all the time how happy she was, that is was the best time of her life, etc...

 

But then she went back to Qinghai & I went back to NYC.

1 or 2 weeks later she started saying her family was pushing her to marry her ex boyfriend in Xining, this guy is friend of the family for long time.

I didn't take it seriously, because our relation was so perfect. We just had the best time of our lives..

She bought some book to learn Spanish & I was helping her (I'm from Spain)

She was telling me "I don't love my ex but my mom says he has a car & a house & keep pushing".

And again "I don't want to get married so young like all Chinese girls do"

etc...

 

Until 1 month after our trip she tells me she got engaged to this guy.

And they will get married in 1 month.

I was so shocked & devastated...

Few days before we were having sex on facetime & now she was getting married to another guy... couldn't believe it.

Now she was posting sad photos on facebook and telling me that she couldn't go against her family's will.

 

<Admin edit: removed photos containing personal identifying information>

 

I bought a ticket to Xining.

Started to fix things, to empty my apartment, gave all my furniture to friends & left to Xining.

I couldn't speak Chinese & I didn't know anyone there.

I was a bit afraid but I couldn't seat at home while someone was arranging my girlfriends marriage with another guy...

Lily was telling me not to go. That she was already engaged & sent me the engagement photos. 

She was like a totally different person.

 

I arrived to Xining & not even in the hotel they could speak english.  

Found Lily the day after & she helped me to rent a room (way cheaper than the hotel)

 

I had to stop to wedding...

I found her fiancé 6 days before the wedding. A friend gave him a call & we met.

Told him Lily & I just came back from our 3 months vacations in China & Thailand.

And asked him why the hell was he going to marry my girlfriend!!??

(by the way he didn't speak english, some girl help me to translate).

The guy was shocked & he wanted to leave & go to talk to Lily.

I was only able to talk to him for a few minutes...

 

Later on both of them came to met me.

And he was telling me that they still wanted to get married.

She was looking kind of shy & would speak to much, only translate what he was saying.

The guy even invited me to their fricking wedding. He has to be kidding me...

 

I kept triying to stop the wedding.

I contacted Lily's cousin, we met in Chengdu during our vacations.

But when he came, his mom & dad where with him & they were not so friendly.

Lily came right after & they called the police on me.

What the heck! :O

 

 

Finally I was not able to stop the wedding.
I had to move from China to Taiwan every 3 months because of the Chinese Visa.

Ended up having problems to rent apartment in China, for some reason landlords didn't want to rent to foreigners.

I got sick & my stuff was stolen.

Had to go back to Spain empty handed & sick.

 

Thanks god I'm starting to get back on my feet.

Finally got healthy again, after months of going to doctors & made some money.

But this was with difference the hardest time of my life.

Life is to short for this kind of dramas...

 

Sorry for the long story. ;-)

[abcdefg]

I'm sorry you have had such pain. In China, especially in traditional families, marriage can resemble a corporate merger more than just two people falling in love. It isn't simple.

 

From post #22 --

 

Just be careful out there.  There are cultural assumptions bred into bones on both sides, and you can get hurt, or deal hurt, both unexpectedly and unintentionally.

[ZhangKaiRong]

It's a sad story, but this is reality. I know it won't make you feel better, but your love wouldn't last too long. She can speak English, her relatives can't, it would definitely make some problems later on.

[Angelina]

****. After all you did for her. 

 

There are Chinese people who decide to marry the person they want to marry (I am not sure about the percentage though), being Chinese is not an excuse for being a bitch. 

 

Think about it this way, she does not deserve your love and attention. Her parents might have pushed her, but she made the final decision herself. Do you really want to have feelings for a person this weak? 

 

Edited 

 

 

[Angelina]

"I don't love my ex but my mom says he has a car & a house & keep pushing"

 

Yes, her mother was pushing, but she was the one who decided to marry a guy with a house and a car. She will be stuck to a life of boredom, mediocrity and cowardice. 

[anonymoose]

Puta. After all you did for her.

 

That was hardly called for. Where did he say he did anything for her?

 

Few days before we were having sex on facetime

 

How does that work?

[Angelina]

I bought a ticket to Xining.

Started to fix things, to empty my apartment, gave all my furniture to friends & left to Xining.

I couldn't speak Chinese & I didn't know anyone there.

 

Lily came right after & they called the police on me.

[anonymoose]

So if I buy a plane ticket and fly to where you are, and you reject me, that makes you a whore?

[Angelina]

If you have feelings for me and I have feelings for you and then I decide to get married to a house and a car, YES. 

[anonymoose]

Where did he say she married the guy for his house and car? As far as I can see, that was just (one of) her mother's reason(s) for her wanting her daughter to marry the guy.

 

Of course we don't know the ins and outs of this story. But my interpretation is the girl is a victim also. I certainly wouldn't jump to the conclusion that she's a whore.

[danielfd]

Her family is poor & she was not working but in college.

I paid her hotels & flights during our 3 months vacations.

Sometimes we could be in Shanghai & college call her to go back to Chendu to fix everything for the graduation.

Telling all the time how perfect everything was, how happy she was, that she could talk about this with a chinese guy, that she couldn't do that with a chinese guy, etc.

And 1 month later she gets engaged to another guy.

I think it fits the description quite well...

 

I remember when I met her how she used to say "western guys are players" 

Or how she was jealous when a friend came to visit NYC & let her stay at my place.

And how many times she told me she didn't love that guy & didn't want to marry him.

Nor wanted to get married so young, for later on get engaged within 1 or 2 weeks.

I think the description some of you gave of her may fit quite well...