An Arranged Marriage

[rezaf]

This topic reminds me of my relationship with my girlfriend(now my wife) during the first year. We didn't have anything so intense but culture, her parents/family and lots of other stuff got us close to a breakup a few times. At that time I started listening to Chinese breakup songs and even learned one of them*. I sang it in a singing competition at our school and channeled all my sadness into it (I think someone in the audience even cried). As far as I remember I won the first prize but anyway my point is that when two people from two different cultures start a relationship you can't say you know him or her or what they want if you haven't been through a long and difficult process of learning about that culture and in a relationship one side usually needs to make a bigger effort so a few months of vacation is really not enough. Even though at the beginning my Chinese was OKayish, for me it took probably around three years of relationship and lots of sad songs to realize how to handle the cultural difference/parents problems whenever they popped up in our relationship and frankly I'm still scared of them. On the other hand no matter what the culture is some people just want to have a fling and realizing your partner's intention as early as possible can save you lots of tears and money.

*A-Lin gave a nice performance of that song a few weeks ago:

http://youtu.be/yQfS6Wi6zHA

[Simon_CH]

I am surprised that nobody here mentioned that this seems to be a fairly common thing for some Chinese girls (good education, speak English, have travelled, upper middle class family from my observation) - experiencing a (sexual/romantic) relationship with a foreign guy before doing the sensible thing and settling down with a Chinese guy. It's understandable in a way, they are curious how it is to be with a Western guy for different reasons. Sometimes it's just an adventure, something they want to have done before they settle, sometimes they want to experience romance in a Hollywood movie-type of way. 

 

I have been hit on quite aggressively by some Chinese girls, nothing happened in the end but we stayed in contact or became friends, only for them to post engagement pictures a few weeks or months later. I think most men who stay in China for a while will experience the same. A relationship yes, even with "traditional" Chinese girls, but when you don't get introduced to their parents the message is clear. 

[Lu]

Is it really that calculated? I'd think it might often be more that a woman is interested in the exotic Western guy, dates him for a while, but then after they break up she dates a Chinese guy again and it's so much easier (culture-wise, family approval-wise) that she happily marries him. Intercultural romance is interesting and great, but also difficult. Most people end up marrying someone from their own background, even if they romance someone from a different background before settling down.

[Simon_CH]

I did have the impression that it was rather calculated in these cases. The relationship has a clear end date, and in some cases they are already engaged/promised to a Chinese guy. What you describe (to first date a foreign guy and then later settle with a local) is of course more common but I suspect in more cases than we realize the end goal is clear from the beginning. The OP may have been a victim to just one such arrangement without realizing it or taking the clues. She certainly never introduced him to her parents has she? 

 

Many Chinese girls are happy to date a foreigner in their college years, but know with certainty that they would (have to) marry a Chinese guy after they graduate. When you're still studying you don't get grilled about your salary, social status, family, long-term plans etc...because that doesn't matter in such a relationship. I suspect any foreigner who doesn't face these questions should brace himself for the inevitable truth that she isn't interested in a long-term relationship. 

[imron]

I'd think it might often be more that a woman is interested in the exotic Western guy, dates him for a while, but then after they break up she dates a Chinese guy again

I think the other thing is that a large number of Chinese people date with a view to marriage, whereas in the West people date first with a view of getting to know a person, seeing if they're compatible and maybe after some years thinking about whether or not to get married.

 

Yes there are plenty of exceptions on both sides, but if a Chinese woman is dating someone with an implicit expectation of marriage down the line and the foreigner is not even anywhere close to thinking about getting married and starting a family then it's not so surprising if there's a breakup and not too long after the Chinese woman finds a Chinese man with similar expectations about dating/marriage as her own.

[Simon_CH]

 

 

Yes there are plenty of exceptions on both sides, but if a Chinese woman is dating someone with an implicit expectation of marriage down the line and the foreigner is not even anywhere close to thinking about getting married and starting a family then it's not so surprising if there's a breakup and not too long after the Chinese woman finds a Chinese man with similar expectations about dating/marriage as her own.

 

That's one way of seeing it. I suspect many Chinese women who date a Western guy already know that they aren't ready for marriage, and that the eventual breakup is inevitable. I have found that a lot of Chinese women have Chinese "college boyfriends" with a similar limited lifespan as with foreign boyfriends - at some point they will have to break up with them to find a suitable prospective husband. 

Rational decisions mostly trump emotions in China. 

[danielfd]

My experience in China was quite disappointing.

 

I think chinese people are cold and usually they have 2 faces.

They like to plan everything & want safety at all cost, even if it means to give up lots of other good things or marry a guy they are not in love with.

 

While in China I tried to meet some friends that were able to speak english...

After 3 months in Xining it was terrible not being able to have meaningful conversations with anyone.

Some of the girls I met will hang out & introduce me their boyfriends. (even take me to his house for dinner)

But 2 or 3 days later they will ask to have sex in a very direct way. I never expected Chinese girls to be so clear & direct about cheating on their boyfriends.

They pretend to be such a good & pure girls, but later on reality just seem to be the opposite.

One of this girls use to say she loves her bf & wants to marry him (because he has 2 houses & his family has money)... but she also wants to have fun.

And this happens few days after I told them that I went to China to stop my girlfriend's wedding with that chinese guy. It felt quite disgusting...

 

Don't know if I'm just unlucky & I always met the wrong people.

I used to be so excited about China, I was learning chinese, got a 1 year working Visa (most of my suppliers are chinese). Was planing to move there & marry my girlfriend.

But all this experiences makes me realize that this may not be the place where I want to spend my life.

 

My experience while living in Taiwan was totally different.

People there seems to be much honest, without the need to hide their intentions & desires.

[jbradfor]

 

experiencing a (sexual/romantic) relationship with a foreign guy before doing the sensible thing and settling down with a Chinese guy.

[Queue "Super Freak":] apparently I'm "The kind you don't take home to mother"

[abcdefg]

#107 --

Don't know if I'm just unlucky & I always met the wrong people... But all this experiences makes me realize that this may not be the place where I want to spend my life.

 

You had a tough introduction to China. The place has many faces, many realities. Maybe best not to rule it out quite yet.

[ZhangKaiRong]

@danielfd

 

They pretend to be such a good & pure girls, but later on reality just seem to be the opposite.

There is a Chinese term for such girls: 绿茶婊, rough translation is green tea b.tch.

 

Honestly, I'm not surprised that you met this kind of girls. No offense, but you specifically looked for girls who can converse in English (and I guess you met in pubs or other Western kind of places), because you can't speak Chinese. In my experience, there are a certain group of girls with reasonable English conversational skills who tend to be more Western-like in mentality, but in a quite odd way: their idea about the West means freedom without boundaries. They also rigid consumers of Western pop culture but without a deep understanding of its background and without a clear understanding of how fake it is. I know a lot of this kind of Chinese girls (several of them learning in my home country's universities) and I also don't like them. But not all of the mainland girls like this. You just happened to fish in a bad pool.

[geraldc]

Just in terms of balance. I'd say 95% of blondes in short skirts in provincial Chinese nightclubs aren't there due to their love of Chinese culture (margin of error 5%)

[renzhe]

danield, that sounds disappointing indeed.

But keep in mind that, as a recently-arrived foreigner who does not speak fluent Chinese and does not have local contacts, you basically act as a magnet for those kinds of people. It's not your fault, of course, and it doesn't paint a nice picture, but it's not the "true" China, just one of its ugly aspects that is exaggerated in your situation.

Unfortunately, many European exchange students and expats played a role in creating this situation. Many of them are only interested in sex and, as a result, Europeans in general have an unflattering reputation in some places. "Nice girls" stay away, "bad" and "shallow" girls are attracted.

[Angelina]

Unfortunately, many European exchange students and expats played a role in creating this situation.

 

European guys who live in China do not have a good reputation. Since they don't have a good reputation, it is more likely for a Chinese gold digger to be after them than for a normal girl. 

 

Does it mean all European men are players? No

Does it mean all Chinese girls are bad? No

 

Please Daniel, try to move on. Do not blame it all on China. Maybe those who have been here longer have learned how to stay away from the gold diggers. 

[Simon_CH]

 

European guys who live in China do not have a good reputation. Since they don't have a good reputation, it is more likely for a Chinese gold digger to be after them than for a normal girl. 

 

Does it mean all European men are players? No

Does it mean all Chinese girls are bad? No

Please Daniel, try to move on. Do not blame it all on China. Maybe those who have been here longer have learned how to stay away from the gold diggers.

 

I really don't get the Chinese gold digger comment. Why would a Chinese girl date a European college student or English teacher for monetary reasons? That makes no sense whatsoever unless she is from a really poor family. I have never had any monetary expectations from any girl I dated in China, and I suspect that most Chinese guys have to fork out a lot more for presents, dinner dates etc. than foreigners do, as relationships tend to be more equal and sharing in Europe and giving expensive gifts isn't so common. So the whole money digger phenomenon seems  to me like a relic of the past where local guys made no money and all Westerners were considered rich. 

 

I don't claim to speak for everyone, but at least in my social circles in Beijing this couldn't be further from the truth. In many cases the girls' parents own several appartments or are business owners whereas the guy just earn normal, decent salaries. Again I posit for most Chinese girls dating a foreigner is about the experience, certainly not the money. 

 

Are all European men players? In a Chinese context; yes. They date without the clear intention of getting married. 

Are all Chinese women bad? In a European context; yes. Many settle with a guy they have no feelings for. 

 

I was always under the impression that both sides knew what they were in for when they dated someone from the other culture. It's obviously different with Daniel as he doesn't live here. 

[Lu]

I was always under the impression that both sides knew what they were in for when they dated someone from the other culture.

Not necessarily I think. At some point a foreigner learns that most Chinese date with intent to marry, but if the foreigner dates a Chinese before learning that, they don't know what they're getting into. And the same goes for Chinese dating foreigners.

[studychinese]

Chinese date with intent to marry, except when they don't.

[jbradfor]

 

I was always under the impression that both sides knew what they were in for when they dated someone from the other culture.

Seriously?  Your typical male college student doesn't really have a clue how to date women from their own culture, let alone other cultures.  [And yes, I certainly include myself in that.]

[Angelina]

Hahahaha jbradfor

 

This topic is getting tiring. The Chinese vs. the foreigners, as if we are all homogenous. Daniel should not hate all Chinese people because of what happened. That's it.  

[Simon_CH]

 

 

Seriously?  Your typical male college student doesn't really have a clue how to date women from their own culture, let alone other cultures.  [And yes, I certainly include myself in that.]

 

You may be right, but I was referring to people studying, working or otherwise living in China - not to college students on an exchange semester. :-) 

[Mr. 愛爾蘭]

You deserved to be treated with more respect. However, you aren't entitled to it, nor are you entitlted to her.

 

As a general rule of thumb, unless you're in a romantic comedy, putting your life on pause, flying across the world, crashing a wedding, and continually imposing your presence on a family who wants nothing to do with you is extremely fucked up.

 

Why are you still interested in being with someone who would treat you poorly (according to your story, anyway) and make a decision like this? She's not worth it!

 

I hope you learned a lesson from this. The next time a relationship is over, let it be and move on. We've all done embarassing things in relationships before, but we (hopefully) learn from it. So the next time you're feeling crazy, for your dignity and the safety of yourself and others, use this experience to restrain yourself.

 

AND she pretended Daniel was stalking her so they had to call the cops.

If he wasn't stalking her, he was one hair away from it.

You can't tell a guy how you love him and how you are having the time of your life and then pretend he is a stalker when he flies to the other side of the planet to help you deal with oppressive parents.

She didn't want him there. They didn't want him there. If you show up uninvited and people tell you to fuck off, then you fuck off or you cross the line into stalking. If she wanted him to play the white knight and save her, she didn't say so:

Lily was telling me not to go. That she was already engaged & sent me the engagement photos. 

She was like a totally different person.

This is the point where you're supposed to move on with your life. Instead, he goes to China and contacts multiple members of her family, her boyfriend, etc and tries to crash a wedding.

 

I was reminded of this thread when I read this article today: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2975990/Infatuated-American-teen-drowns-freezing-Chinese-river-flying-7-000-miles-meet-girl-fell-love-internet-getting-blind-drunk-told-wasn-t-interested.html?ito=social-facebook