One year of Chinese enough for Engineering Masters?

[sujeto]

But let me understand this, i'm guessing you are talking about the USA jobs opportunities rigth? But then what universities worth if you want to work there, i mean neither a mid japanese or british university worth for USA?

 

Well actually working in Qualcomm Nvidia AMD Samsung Nokia is on my plans, you are basicly saying a Chinese University won't be taken on consideration by recruiters in any part of the world?

[gato]

Sujeto, it seems that you are taking Chinese government promotional material at too much face value. Most Chinese don't have much faith in the quality of their universities.

[sujeto]

Gosh, don't do that man, i'm about to leave everything to go there (my saves and my girlfriend), i'm looking at it as a big boost in my career    i wanna play on the big leagues. 

[simpleasy]

Electronical engineers are in high demand all over the world, so even a Chinese degree will get you a job. If recruiters have a choice though, they will choose for someone with an American or European degree. 

China is indeed a very promising country, but it isn't there yet. And as everyone here said, getting a degree in the united states is definitely a better idea. There are many scholarships available, not only in the united states.

 

If you really want to learn Chinese, then you might be able to do so by studying 10 hours every day or so. But don't forget that you need to eat and sleep. So I'd say it's almost impossible.

Also, it seems like studying Chinese is just a way to get your engineering degree. Do you have any interest in the Chinese language itself? What are you willing to give up to speak Chinese fluently? 

If it's just for your engineering degree then I'd say forget it. You'll need two or three years at least.

 

Also, do you see a relationship between you and China in the future, after you graduated? If not, then there is absolutely no reason to study there.
I'd look for another scholarship if I was you. 

 

It's unfortunate that this destroys your dreams. But this will probably not be a big boost in your career.

[sujeto]

I requested the Chevenning from British council but didn't work. I think Japan has a scholarship program also, i migth present the same research proposal i did for China, what do you know about Japan?

[grawrt]

Sorry this is a bit off topic. I just wanted to add that at my university many of the foreign students were well respected. They were all very bright and usually the subject of envy from many students because of how well they were academically. Professors are also very interested in hearing from these students and encourage them to speak up in class because they provide such a different point of view than the rest of us.

Besides, if you go to a top level school, you're not going to be put into a place filled with ignorant people who view all foreigners as a threat.

I don't think you should worry but I think in all honesty you should probably just go to china to study. It sounds to me like you're a bit embittered with the US, and so you likely wont enjoy your stay there very much. This might even endanger your studies, and as a result will make you more miserable with your choice.

If you do decide to go to the US to study you should try and ignore the negative things you hear about the US. For instance, before I got to China, I read a lot of negative things and I was a bit worried how I would feel living here. But once I got here I was pleasantly surprised to find that many of the things I read were a bit biased or maybe just true in some parts of china, in other words, it wasn't common to the WHOLE China. I think you might find yourself thinking the same thing if you decide to study in the US.

[Lu]

If the best possible education is your goal, I think you should try to go to a US or other Western university. These degrees, to my knowledge, are the most valued by recruiters.

I'm in Europe and have never spent extensive time in the US, but I do think that every country has its good and bad sides, and in every country most people just live normal lives. If you go to the US with an open mind and an intention to like the place, you will most likely have a good time there. There will be some bad experiences, but the same goes for China (and no doubt even for your own country). If you have the opportunity to get a degree in the US, in my opinion you shouldn't throw that aside because you don't have a good impression of the place.

If you can't get a degree at a good Western university, do try for China. You'll likely have a great time there as well, expand your horizon, and come out knowing not only your field but also Chinese. But, much as I love China, I think that in your situation it should be the second choice.

[sujeto]

Actually i don't hate USA, USA was a country founded by pioneers, and they are the current superpower for a good reason (until China get the thorne XD), if could i would go study there, but the facts is i don't have the money to pay such of adventure, it would be impossible for me from here to go there, for many reasons, My country has a terrible foreign politic rigthnow against USA and in general Big Companies avoid to invest here, result on zero chances to develop my career.

 

But look at this site https://jobs.qualcomm.com/public/search.xhtml   Jobs in Qualcomm: 314 Jobs offer in USA and  249 in Non USA, from the non USA, China and Taiwan alone make 100 Jobs, also other companies has jobs offers there, mainly in Shenzhen, Peking and Shanghai. That's quite interesting. Wether sucesfull candidates are Chineses educated at USA or Expat in China, i woudn't be so sure (why leave USA when can stay) so i migth think will be Chineses from China University who will occupied those jobs.

[山东朱]

Seems that you are quite pressed on time regarding your scholarship. Thats understandable. Let me tell you three things:

 

-First, one year definitely won't be enough to bring you near any level that would allow you to go to have any real orientation in a graduate class in China. Unless the teachers teach in English too, you will be lost.

 

-Studying in China can be worthwile, regardless of your major, if you are willing to fully indulge in the language and plan to use it in the future. Otherwise, don't do it.

 

-Outside of a handful of universities in China, your degree be looked down upon since you are a foreigner. If you make it to Peking University, Tsinghua, Fudan or a few other schools, it may very well open doors for you inside China, since those schools are well connected, and you can try to make contacts while you study. Degrees from universities outside the Top 10 though will mostly be frowned upon by Chinese recruiters if you are a foreigner, because they are aware that those are reserved for bad foreign students or those from rather underdeveoped countries.

[Nathan Mao]

sujeto-1

 

A few points:

1) Very few people in the US look down on immigrants.  Many conservatives don't like illegal immigrants because they don't like people to get rewarded for breaking laws, they fear our lax voting rules allow illegal immigrants to vote, they don't like their taxes being higher and medical costs being higher to pay for illegal immigrants using welfare benefits and Emergency Rooms for free. These conservatives consider US citizenship a valuable treasure and want to make sure it is given only to people who work to earn it. (But many conservatives who like cheap labor for their businesses do like illegal immigrants, and want to keep them illegal to keep their wages low).

However, conservatives respect anyone who plays by the rules and works hard to succeed.  You would be entering the US under this situation.  There is no one would treat you like a redneck immigrant.  You would be just about universally respected and admired.  I say "just about" because there are always stupid and ignorant people everywhere.

2) When it comes to getting hired, studying and getting your degree in China may have a negative impact.  There may be some jobs where they don't even give you a chance because someone from Stanford or Georgia Tech (two of the top US engineering schools) is applying with an excellent resume.  When you find a recruiter who wants to hire you, he may offer you a lower salary.

 

However, here is the reality:

1) If getting a degree in China was useless or inadequate, the top US universities would not be filled with Chinese post-grad and post-doc students who got their BS or MS in China.

2) If getting a PhD in science in China was useless or inadequate, no one would attend those schools.  They would be shut down.  The fact that they still graduate students means that their students are finding jobs.

3) When it comes to getting a job, your school may open a door, but it is YOU that gets the job.  You can get the same knowledge from anywhere.  Georgia Tech doesn't use different math than Beijing Daxue (Beijing University, 北大)  There are plenty of people in the US who go to the "wrong" school for engineering or science but still have great careers.

4) Is it better to be a top student in a less-respected program, or a mediocre student lost in the crowed at a top-respected program?  In most top programs, you will never see the PhDs that gave the program its reputation.

5) Your degree really only matters for your first job.  Once you have a work record, people will care what you did in your job far more than where you went to school.

 

So, it is true: going to China might make it more difficult for you to get the salary you want in the job you want. But it won't make it impossible.

It only changes your range of choices, it doesn't limit your choices.

 

 

3) Language:

I vehemently disagree that you can't learn enough in a year to study.

In the US, the Defense Language Institute constantly gets hundreds of students to functional fluency in a little over a year.  It is 8 hours a day, 5 days a week...but at the end of the day, and on the weekends, most people go home and do English with their friends and family.  In China, you will be immersed.  At the end of your 8 hours of study, you will leave the classroom to be immersed in Chinese language.

 

Plus, you have the advantage of this being your second non-native language.  The more languages you learn, the easier it gets.

 

In addition, you have the advantage of knowing what you must learn to be successful: engineering, math, and science vocabulary and grammar.  From the very first, tell your teachers you need to focus on that area.  Instead of practicing how to tell the time or directions, have them start you off with how to describe basic math 一加一等二， 二 成 三等六 ， etcetera.  Then after you get basic language skills down, and learn how to use a dictionary, you go and buy engineering magazines and books, and just start working through them on your off time.  

 

It won't be easy.  You MUST realize that during your year of study, you won't be able to play that much.  You will have to spend 15 hours every day (including weekends) constantly doing language practice, listening to Chinese music, watching Chinese TV, talking with people on the street, striking up a conversation with someone EVERY TIME you get on the bus or subway, being bold enough to ask total strangers for help with characters or grammar.  

 

You will be exhausted (learning languages really tires out your brain.  seriously).  You may find people who speak English or (Spanish or Portuguese?) and want to rest with them, but you MUST resist that temptation and go out and talk more with Chinese people.

 

As early as possible, you should find a local school (on any level) with engineering classes at a time you can attend in your free time (evenings or weekends?) and just sit in the classes and absorb the lectures.  If that is even possible.  I have no knowledge of weekend/evening classes in China.

 

And even after all that, you probably will still struggle when you start your engineering classes.

 

But in my opinion, it will be worth it.  Your world, knowledge, understanding, and insight will be expanded so much by studying in an Asian nation.

It will be fun.  It will be exhausting.  It will be exciting.  It will be frustrating.

 

4) Future opportunities

Many South and Central American nations are still developing their relations with China and Taiwan due to the diplomatic wars of the last two decades where China tried to isolate Taiwan diplomatically and Taiwan tried to use their superior technology to keep their diplomatic partners loyal.  Lots of bribery on both sides.

Even now, China is still in Export-Oriented Economy mode.  They need new markets for all their products to fund their modernization.  If you become an Engineer with full fluency in Mandarin Chinese, English, and Spanish/Portuguese, you will have a rare and valuable skill set for technology transfer.  Again, it won't guarantee you a job, but in the long run it should actually pay off more than a degree from a top US school.

 

 

 

But don't fool yourself: studying in China won't be easy.  Then again, you don't seem like the kind of person who takes the easy way.

[sujeto]

Guys, thanks for your responses. According to your opinion, Which are the 10 top universites in China to work for, where recruiters at least respect my degre?

[gato]

If your goal is to do engineering and if grad school in in the US is at all an option, then going to China for the degree would be a mistake for the reasons I mentioned earlier. It's just too risky and would take several years out of your life. Engineers are like models, in that they are most employable when they are young. Older engineers find it tougher if they don't become manager. An entry-level older engineers would have a tougher time. Both my parents have engineers (EE) from China who went to graduate school in the US and worked in Silicon Valley I have a CS degree from the US and used to worked as a software engineer before moving into another field. I have also lived and worked in China for the last decade (including teaching a year in a Chinese university in a social science subject). So I do have some background to speak on this, but I don't want to keep repeating the same thing.

You have to be clear of your own goals, think about all the options available to you, and think about the pros and cons of each. Also think about backup plans if what you choose doesn't work out. Think probabilistically: what is the chance of A happening, what is the chance of B, etc.

[山东朱]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C9_League

 

Those are usually considered the best universities in China, give or take a few. IMHO though I would exclude Xi'An and Hefei, just in terms of not being international cities. Beijing and Shanghai are much safer choices, Hangzhou should be fine too.

 

Have you considered studying in another country of South America though? I would guess if you make it into a good university there, it would be of more value to you. Seriously, don't take world university rankings at face value, if you make it into a reputable engineering major in a spanish-speaking country, just do it, even if the university is not ranked as high as Tsinghua.

 

A big problem in China is that everybody can graduate, as long as they follow procedure. If you are unlucky, you will be given a free pass because you are a foreigner, and professors will make sure that you get a degree - even if you understand just half of what is being teached in class, which, given that you will be needing chinese language skills, could very well be the case. So, if you just want a degree, go to China, cause you are pretty likely to get it once you enrolled. Just don't expect the university to push you towards excellence.

[sujeto]

Gato myfriend, i'm reading you and you are totally RIGTH on everything, but i have not money to go USA, i'm poor seriously. 

 

I barely could get the money to pay fligth ticket to China. Unless you can advice me a different way to go USA wich not includes to wash dishes or cross the Mexican frontier XD If you are a Silicon Valley guy maybe you can enligth me.

 

According to your opinion,  isn't worth tome to even try study in China because i'm poor and i'm already burn? I'm not a kid anymore i'm 28 years old, i made a lot of sacrifice to earn my degree. Never USA or EU gave me a hand before,  the only one was China, and you then say isn't worth nothing. I'm very confused rigthnow.

 

That's sounds to me like the typicall "USA is the center of the world" way to think. What about Singapore, Japan and Middle Kingdom.

 

 

Shendong Zhu, i'm goin to study at Harbin Institute of Technology, i'm guessing it's a good University, they have launched it's own satellite and make military projects. 

[gato]

Have you taken the GRE? That's a key step to applying to grad schools in the US. What steps have you taken to apply to schools in the US or EU?

28 is not young any more for an engineer, especially since you are still looking at more time in school, putting you in your 30s when you apply for jobs. You need to evaluate the information and choices available very carefully to make the best possible choice.

[sujeto]

I had to work to pay my university, isn't that easy for us in thirdworld you know. I guess if i'm already burn for US Market so there isn't nothing to discuss here.   But i'm glad i'm reading this from you before a recruiter from USA.

[simpleasy]

Why not go for a European country then? The UK is very expensive too, but many other countries have cheap education because of the social system built here.

We pay more taxes, but our healthcare and education is cheaper. Although most counties make it a bit more expensive for foreigners than for natives, it's still much cheaper than in the United States, and many universities aren't that bad either. Not all universities offer classes in English though, but I don't expect that to be a problem since you don't have a problem with Chinese classes either.
Also, there are many countries in Europe, surely one of them will give you a scholarship, won't they?

 

It seems to me like your mind is set on China. Saying that you are already to old for the US market has absolutely no influence on whether you should study there or not. The location where you get your degree does not necessarily equal the place where your first employer will be. You can get a degree in the US / EU and work in China afterwards if you want.

[sujeto]

simpleasy if you know an actual scholarship program from an EU instituton willing to accept, let me  know cause i don't have such of info by first hand. Foreign politic of my government is quite bad.

[simpleasy]

I don't know much about such scholarships, since I'm not a foreign student here. However the Erasmus project is well known here, it used to be only for exchanges within Europe. Now it arranges exchanges from all over the world under the name of Erasmus Mundus. Although Europe to Europe exchanges are still more common. By doing a quick search on Google I found the following link:

http://eacea.ec.europa.eu/erasmus_mundus/funding/scholarships_students_academics_en.php
These scholarships are organised by the European union if I'm not mistaken, I assume there are also scholarship organised by governments of individual countries. If you want to know more about those I suggest you send an email to the embassies of European countries in your country. Explain your situation and ask if there are any scholarships available for you.

 

Since you already have a Chinese scholarship, you can always fall back on that if you don't find any other scholarships. 

 

Edit: It seems like it's already too late to apply for Erasmus Mundus scholarships for 2014-2015. But it's never too late to contact local embassies. Let us know if you find anything.

[sujeto]

I don't know man, i keep not understanding what the heck has US University so special. That's BS, i mean maybe USA was good back then during cold war, but today they have shuted off the space exploration program, when is China and Japan the only one who are aiming to send the second human mission to Moon. USA universities are famous to produce drunk college boys in their crazy parties. I don't see nothing proud on this. I don't see how a Software Engineer from India is less effective than a yankee.