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Chinese Universities vs American Universities (need help asap)


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Posted
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Simon, you speak with such confidence about all the European and Chinese universities that it makes me wonder if you're a renowned bilingual student that travels through all of Europe

I'm sure that Simon can speak very well for himself, but I'll interject here as someone who has some experience with European universities.

The reason why people recommended them is that Europe has undergone a continent-wide reform of higher education (Bologna accord) where all European countries except Belarus and Kosovo have standardised their teaching and curricula. The goal was to make it easier for students to move between countries, continue studies in a new country, and have their qualifications recognised everywhere in Europe. Add to this very active exchange programmes like Erasmus, and the billions of Euro in funding that the EU provides in order to move researchers between universities and foster cooperation, and you will see that mobility of students is very high on the list of EU priorities.

Because of this mobility, many universities now offer courses in English, which is the second language of most of Europe. Having large number of foreign students studying in English is very common in Europe, and uncommon in China.

You have reasons not to consider Europe, and I don't want to pressure you. But people recommended Europe as an alternative because it's much more realistic than China, that's all.

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knows just how much easier it would be for someone who might be something like Lithuanian to master English, than it is for a Chinese to master English

This based on a relatively small sample, but I've studied with quite a few Lithuanians and Chinese, and I agree that this is the case.

Lithuanian is more similar to English, shares a lot of advanced vocabulary, and Lithuanians are much more exposed to English in their daily lives.

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Maybe I'm being close-minded here, but I think there must be a reason why the price tag on American education remains where it is; scratch that, gets higher every year.

The reason is that most of the higher education in the US is private, and the rest adjusts the prices accordingly. In many other places in the world, education is not run (primarily) for profit.
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If I do decide to move to other nations like China, Japan, England, Germany, or the like, I will feel confident that my American degree will be worth something in one of those nations. As for a European or Chinese degree, I don't think that either of those degrees will be as well-regarded by potential employers as much as an American one.

Not in the US, you're probably right. But in Europe? It would very much depend on which university you are talking about.
  • Like 2
Posted

Hmm interesting.. I might consider studying abroad in Europe or something if something particularly strikes my interest.

 

Pardon, I should have used nations that use the Cyrillic alphabet as an example opposed to the Lithuanian alphabet since I did not initially know that their alphabet was similar to ours. I still stand by my initial point though. Lithuania was just a hypothetical example.

 

I was under the impression that Europe did not only have public universities but private ones as well? Interesting.

 

Still I remain convinced that an American education will encompass the interest of more international and national employers than a European degree. Maybe I'm just underestimating European universities due to the nationalistic way I was taught in school.

Posted

Thanks renzhe, that's the point I was trying to hint at. 

 

@rbb1996: you are at the very start of your research, you don't know much about global education. that's fine, but I think it would be helpful to drop some of your assumptions, acknowledge your lack of knowledge about educational systems and start to earnestly research with an open mind, you will be surprised how much more globalised excellent education is, despite the high concentration of research excellence at Ivy league schools. 

 

Just my honest 2c here.

Posted
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I should have used nations that use the Cyrillic alphabet as an example opposed to the Lithuanian alphabet since I did not initially know that their alphabet was similar to ours. I still stand by my initial point though. Lithuania was just a hypothetical example.

It's not the alphabet that makes the difference. I don't speak more than a few words of Russian, but I learned Cyrillic in a spare half hour at some point and can read enough to tell a pharmacy from an optometrician's shop. It's the similar grammar, related vocabulary and exposure that makes the difference. Chinese people know their ABC's, they learn pinyin in school. Regardless, Europe is a big place with many countries, and English level varies a lot between them. You can't estimate the English level of 'Europe' by that of, say, Belarus.

For American employers, I completely agree that an American degree will be more useful. In China, I wonder if (Chinese) employers would really prefer an American over a European degree. In Europe, it'll probably depend on the employer and the university the degree is from. An American degree is not necessarily seen as better.

I can't speak for other European countries, but my city has one private (Webster University) and one public (Leiden University) university. But I've never heard of a Dutch person going to a private university in the Netherlands (they probably exist, but I don't know anyone). I don't know how tuition costs compare, but as I understood from the one person I ever met who went there, the appeal was mainly that his degree would be American, as Webster is an American uni.

Posted

And besides, not only is English in the academic world extremely widespread in Europe, its countries also rank very high in the English Proficiency Index by EF. There are other studies, but the results aren't that different: 

Rank Country     1 Sweden 2 Norway 3 Netherlands 4 Estonia 5 Denmark 6 Austria 7 Finland 8 Poland 9 Hungary 10 Slovenia 11 Malaysia 12 Singapore 13 Belgium 14 Germany 15 Latvia 16 Switzerland 17 Portugal 18 Slovakia 19 Argentina 20 Czech Republic 21 India 22 Hong Kong SAR 23 Spain 24 South Korea 25 Indonesia 26 Japan 27 Ukraine 28 Vietnam 29 Uruguay 30 Sri Lanka 31 Russia 32 Italy 33 Taiwan 34 China 35 France 36 United Arab Emirates 37 Costa Rica 38 Brazil 39 Peru 40 Mexico 41 Turkey 42 Iran 43 Egypt 44 Chile 45 Morocco 46 Colombia 47 Kuwait 48 Ecuador 49 Venezuela 50 Jordan 51 Qatar 52 Guatemala 53 El Salvador 54 Libya 55 Thailand

 

http://www.multivu.com/mnr/62435-ef-education-first-top-english-speaking-countries

While certainly to be taken with a grain of salt it gives a good indication in which countries generally good English is spoken (and where not). Even Hong Kong, previously a British colony, ranks lower here than most European countries. 

  • Like 1
Posted

Well, since Hong Kong is mentioned ...

It really depends on which chart you look at, I suppose. :P For example, if you look at the latest ranking announced by Pearson, it presents a very different picture. Haha.

http://thelearningcurve.pearson.com/index/index-ranking

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27314075

http://newsfirst.lk/english/2014/05/south-korea-tops-education-rankings/34333


PS - Oh I have re-read #25. So it is about English proficiency, not higher education overall.

Posted

Apparently English proficiency indicates the quality of education and how that education is treated by potential employers... 

I came to this forum with quite a lack of knowledge regarding international education - I'll give you that - but I think you're overestimating your own knowledge. Maybe you should take your own advice?

 

Although certain European nations may consider a degree from their native country more valuable than an American one, that degree might not be as internationally marketable as an American one (ex. taking your Finland degree to China). I almost feel like an American degree will encompass the interest of more international employers than some of these European nations. Hard to say for sure since there would be a difficult means for comparison besides maybe unemployment rate in a given country with a given degree? Too many factors play a part to find a true answer for that. Even the unemployment of a certain degree might have other factors. Association does not imply causation.

 

Quite frankly, even if I was completely fluent in Korean, I'm pretty certain I would flunk out of their universities within a week. I've heard too many odd and crazy study stories about that country...

Posted
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Apparently English proficiency indicates the quality of education and how that education is treated by potential employers...

I think you misunderstand that post. English proficiency indicates how feasible it is to get a university degree in that country while not speaking the language. This is one data point that might be useful to you, and which you can consider next to quality of education and value of a diploma in the job market.

It's hard to be sure what diploma will be of the most use internationally. I'm not an employer, but I think that to a large extent it's not just about the name on the degree, but also about which company you're applying to, which country ('internationally' is a very broad thing, and an American degree worth more in Kunming than in Amsterdam), what else is on your cv in addition to your degree, and of course your actual skills. And all else being equal, a degree from a foreign university says a lot about how entrepreneuring you are and how you can adapt to new circumstances.

Since you are American, the easiest route would be to go and study at a decent American univeristy, and all in all that's not a bad choice at all. If you're serious about studying somewhere else, and you don't know where, you need to get a large amount of information to make an informed choice: cost of living in different countries, quality of universities, number of English courses offered, visa rules, etc etc etc. This forum is a good place to start, but there is only so much chinese-forums can tell you about European universities. If you haven't yet, I suggest you take some days to gather as much information as possible to narrow down your plans.

  • Like 1
Posted
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Although certain European nations may consider a degree from their native country more valuable than an American one, that degree might not be as internationally marketable as an American one (ex. taking your Finland degree to China). I almost feel like an American degree will encompass the interest of more international employers than some of these European nations.

I don't know why you think this, or where you intend to work, but European degrees -- especially those from highly developed countries such as the UK, Germany, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and the Nordic countries, are very highly regarded everywhere.

Like many people said: Harvard, Stanford, MIT and similar universities are truly awesome and universally respected. But it's not true that a degree from every unknown provincial university in the US is automatically very desireable or reputable. In the end, it always comes down to the individual employer and their HR team. And unless you do have an Oxford or an MIT degree, most likely they will be more interested in how you conduct your interview, and your professional references rather than hypothetical rankings of a bunch of unknown universities.

It's just very peculiar that you started off by considering random Chinese universities teaching in English as a good alternative to DePaul, and now you seem to think that DePaul is somehow more reputable than Cambridge and ETH.

  • Like 2
Posted

Yes, I'm quite the mutt. My parents actually lived in Israel for 2 years before going to South Africa. So Ukraine, then Israel, then South Africa, and then finally the United States.

 

I did not misunderstand the meaning of English proficiency. I'm just saying that the data he presented is not necessarily relevant to finding a good university (although it is a factor). The community college by my house is also very English proficient, but the quality of education and how it is treated by employers are two different stories. I am still currently exploring Europe as an option, but if anything I would have to be a transfer in a year since most of the deadlines have passed (odd that Chinese deadlines are like mid-summer).

 

I did not say that degrees from every unknown provincial university in the US is desirable, I simply said that a degree from an equally ranked European university would be of on par or of less value internationally (thus making it expensive and inconvenient to consider). Never did I state that DePaul was even comparable to Cambridge. If I had the scores to go to Cambridge, then that last place I would be right now is a Chinese forum. 

 

Really the only reason I was interested in China is because their global university rankings were significantly better than DePaul, yet their price was about $3000 (once converted), and DePaul costs about $35,000 now. I was merely asking if China would be a logical alternative in this case. You guys have answered that question for me.

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