Resources for studying dialects of Chinese

[Manuel]

The goal of this thread is to compile a list of dialect learning resources.

 

I often here the locals here in Wuxi speaking their local dialect and I've always thought it would be fun to learn be able to speak some, but I don't know of any learning resources. I was told that, with the exception of a few expressions, most dialects and putonghua are grammatically similar, so much of the effort would go into re-learning the new pronunciation for each of the characters. To this end, even a simple dictionary with the phonetics of the dialect would be a good starting point.

[Lu]

In my (limited) experience, they are similar like Germanic languages are similar: knowing one gets you a long way in learning the others, but you still need to learn the grammar of the new fangyan. If you simply use Mandarin grammar, you will usually (although not always) be understood, but you will be wrong. An example: 我给他打 means 'He hit me' in Taiwanese (我被他打) but 'I hit him' in Mandarin.

[michaelS]

Phonemica is compiling a list of dialect recordings. I'm not sure whether it contains anything beyond recordings

[renzhe]

It might help to look for Shanghainese learning materials and learn that first. Wuxinese and Shanghainese are mutually intelligible to a relatively large degree, but there is surely far more material for learning Shanghainese. Once you have a grip on that, you can try talking to locals and switch to a proper Wuxi dialect, if this is your goal.

From what I know, Wu dialects have their own vocabulary and grammar (obviously), but the younger generation speaks a heavily Mandarin-influenced version of their local dialect, adopting Mandarin vocabulary (with Wu pronounciation) and Mandarin grammar patterns. With that in mind, like Lu says, simply learning the new pronunciation and speaking "translated Mandarin" would get you reasonable close, as a starting point.

Older people speak a more traditional variant.

[Manuel]

I can't believe I didn't see this before:

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL42B9CF7DB85083E1

 

Wuxihua lessons on youtube.

[gato]

Renzhe is correct. Wuxinese and Shanghainese are mutually intelligible.

[Manuel]

After looking at this table of tone sandhi I am already losing my steam

[renzhe]

Shanghainese is sometimes described as a pitch-accent language. It still has complex sandhi, but it is probably loads easier than the Changzhou and Suzhou variants.

Not completely sure about Wuxi.

[Manuel]

I'll ask the porter tomorrow, she is usually not too busy and always up for chatter. The problem is I don't think native speakers will even be aware of the existence of tones, let alone tone sandhi, which probably means it's easier to just learn it by ear.

[Michaelyus]

Also for 无锡话: http://www.ytz.com.cn/wxfy1.html. Audio is essential when dealing with 方言.

 

You could always get the 阿姨 to help support you with an upload to Phonemica!

 

A quick search on Google Scholar both in Chinese and in English gives some interesting but not particularly learner-friendly papers. In English, a nice short-ish 2011 one on "Tone Variation in the Wuxi Dialect" shows how the tones in Wuxi may or may not be changing with the younger generation. A Chinese one from 2009 "无锡方言语音的共时差异" discusses a similar thing, though synchronically.

 

无锡话 is noted among linguists working in theoretical models of tone sandhi (and other interactions) for its division of tone sandhi environments into two types: spreading and neutralisation à la Shanghai Wu (and Beijing Mandarin neutral tone), and the systematic tabular type (like in Min dialects; a cursory glance reminds me of Fuzhou Min Dong tables more than Xiamen Min Nan tone cycles). "Tone Sandhi: Patterns Across Chinese Dialects", chapter 8 "Stress-foot as sandhi domain II" has a good section on it. 

 

But again, these belong to linguistic knowledge rather than language proficiency.

 

The unofficial mixed 方言 version of Frozen 《冰雪奇缘》's "随它吧" has a line of 无锡话, courtesy of "太子": YouTube link, 56.com (无锡话 at ~2:47), 

[Steingletscher]

Learn the local version of mahjiong and play often with locals.

Actually, I have no idea how it works outside of Sichuan, but if you want to learn Sichuanhua, the best way by far is playing mahjiong with locals.

 

Oh yeah, and comb out your local university's library. I've found some old dictionaries and grammars of Sichuanhua deep in the stacks here at Sichuan University. All in Chinese, but still very useful.

[abcdefg]

Learn the local version of mahjiong and play often with locals.

 

Agree about the usefulness of pursuing leisure activities with locals. I don't play mahjiang unless there's no escape, but have found that my morning 太极拳 Taijiquan classes with 25 or so retired Kunmingren gives me a big dose of the local dialect. They all seem to be able to shift to 普通话 briefly if needed, but it is clearly not their language of choice.

 

The benefit of such situations in learning 方言 is that one hears the same things over and over; enough to gradually figure out what they mean from context or gestures. It is immersion of a particularly useful sort.

[imron]

but have found that my morning 太极拳 Taijiquan classes with 25 or so retired Kunmingren gives me a big dose of the local dialect

Snap.  A large chunk of my Chinese was learnt practising Taiji too (though with a much younger group).

[atitarev]

English Wiktionary is rapidly adding information on Chinese dialects. Although it's still low, words have IPA, usage examples. The latest addition is Wu, especially Shanghainese. There are, for example over 20,000 Mandarin nouns and the infrastructure and enthusiasm and volunteers are there to have more.

[imron]

Welcome back atitarev!

[renzhe]

He's alive!

[atitarev]

Thank you Sorry for being a rare guest but I haven't forgotten about you.

 

I'll share resource I have:

 

I'm sure most people know this famous Cantonese site but I'll add it anyway:

http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/

 

Min Nan

 

This site is great for translating words from Mandarin into Min Nan or to see how a Chinese word is transliterated, with reading in POJ: http://210.240.194.97/taigu.asp

A dictionary: http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/holodict_new/default.jsp

 

Hakka

More for individual characters: http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/bkg.php?gi_gian=eng Select "online dictionaries", 客英大辭典, 漢字

 

Wu

 

Not too reliable, for transliterations of hanzi in Wu  http://wu-chinese.com/minidict/

Great listening resource, be aware that characters are substituted for cognates, e.g. is replaced with 伐  http://shh.dict.cn/ There is also a listening app based on it.

 

From offline resources, I started using "Follow me to say Shanghai dialect" (根我说上海话). It's OK.

[roddy]

Excellent topic! Manuel, do keep us posted on your journey into Wuxihua...

 

It's worth checking out the bookshops too - Amazon.cn doesn't turn anything up for Wuxihua, there are a couple of academic looking results for Changzhouhua, but Suzhouhua has this friendly looking book (although how good it actually is...?)

 

If anyone finds anything useful for their chosen dialects, let us know. I think there's a fair amount available, but often in Chinese and academic. 

[scoff]

One of the issues I found in my abandoned attempt to learn 苏州话 was getting enough exposure to the language. It has been my experience that few people are willing to talk to a complete novice in their 方言 without some kind of incentive when mandarin is an option. 

 

TV is a good and usually free way to get more exposure without worrying too much about bothering anyone else. I used to watch a 苏州台 show called 施斌聊斋 that is broadcast in 苏州话 with subtitles.

 

I can't imagine Suzhou is unique in having this kind of show broadcast in the local 方言 so asking friends or searching Baidu is probably an easy way to get access to lots of dialogue + subtitles.

 

Radio shows are another way to get more exposure but you would probably want to have pretty good facility with the language for radio to be anything other than a struggle. I never reached that level in 苏州话, but qingting is a good resource for radio broadcasts. Might have to do a bit of searching to find out which shows aren't broadcast in Mandarin, but if you've reached this far I can't imagine that being much of a hurdle.

[abcdefg]

It has been my experience that few people are willing to talk to a complete novice in their 方言 without some kind of incentive when mandarin is an option.

 

I sure do get lots of 方言 here in Kunming. It may be because so many Kunming natives are not used to using 普通话 and it is rusty. They have to scratch their heads and think hard about how to say things in standard Chinese.