Jealousy towards Westerners (from "other" Asians)

[Alex Whiteman]

This is not directly related to Chinese people but it's got to do with living in China - particularly as a student, at a campus

I've been getting a lot of bad looks, gossiping, "coming over to question and/or protest", and generally terrible vibes. . . from Asian male classmates (who are the majority) who see me hanging out one-on-one (not dating) with their female counterparts; usually Korean or Japanese.

I've been almost a year in this university so far and off the top of my mind I can count (at least) seven cases of this kind of thing happening.
. . .and I'm writing this after someboy banged my door while I was showering - almost certainly in connection to the last of these incidents.

I know it also happens with Chinese guys and girls - but I thought that was because of socio-economic circumstances that have to do with China alone. Is it like this all over Asia?

Just to clarify:
1) these girls are not other guys' girlfriends.
2) I haven't done or tried to do anything. . .  ahem. . . "physical" with them; nor implied that I would or whatnot. . .

3) these are girls that go out of their way to talk to me or even ask me themselves to go for a bite after class.

4) The Asian guys who complain are themselves chasing girls all over the place regardless of race or nationality.

One thing I do notice is that here Asians do not seem to mix with non-Asians, with a few exceptions (some English speaking or otherwise interested Korean or Japanese guys will hang out with Europeans). Japanese or Korean girls hanging out one-on-one with a non-Asian student? I seem to be the one who keeps breaking that rule.

 

These guys seem pretty indignant, Am I doing something bad that my naiveté prevents me from seeing?
Have there been cases of actual violence in Chinese universities because of this kind of thing?
(for me it's trivial - but for them it seems like it really is a big deal)

[Lu]

To me this looks like plain old macho culture on their part. The only instance of violence caused by something like this that I recall is the riots that broke out in Nanjing years and year ago after black students had hung out with Chinese women, but lesser violence has probably occasionally happened since. No idea how to counter this, I'm a woman and have never had to deal with such issues from your end.

(As to your clarifications: even if those women were dating those guys, they can still talk to you and you to them. And you would still have the full right to pursue romantic relationships even if you were trying to get physical with them (as long as they would be up for that), or even if you were taking the initiative, or even if those guys were not themselves chasing women. Idiots, really. Sorry.)

[Ruben von Zwack]

Seven incidents in one year seems a lot to me, the situation must make you feel quite uncomfortable. How many guys, do you suspect, hold that sort of resentment against you? And what exactly do they say? It reminds me a bit of when Richard Gere kissed some Indian actress, and riots broke out and some guys would carry signs "hands off of our women".

When you think about it, it must mean they view girls as property, so I hope it is just the attitude of some individuals, and not like a majority opinion.

[renzhe]

This could have something to do with specific circumstances on that particular campus, or campuses in that region. Perhaps somebody misbehaved in the past, or there were incidents you're not aware of? Perhaps some horny Europeans in the recent past caused trouble? It doesn't sound like a perfectly healthy atmosphere in any case, if all contacts are along racial lines.

Did any of these "protests" yield any useful insight as to the cause of their indignation?

[gato]

The OP wasn't totally clear, but it seems that he's referring to his Korean and Japanese male classmates who were jealous, not the Chinese students on campus. The OP was hanging out with his Korean and Japanese female classmates.

Korean guys have a reputation being pretty macho in that way. Haven't heard that about Japanese guys.

[Alex Whiteman]

  The only time I heard of "a reason" was last year; our group was doing some activity and a classmate introduced me to this Japanese girl who asked for my weixin. Some Japanese classmates immediately began glancing back at us. A guy finally brought up that I'm in my early 30s and she's in her early 20s (I look younger). I didn't try to continue talking with her after that and kind of forgot about it. It seems to me, that guy was after her the entire semester. As soon as that guy went back home, she began "appearing" around my desk or running into me elsewhere, saying hi once again and sustaining eye contact. So, it seems to me, she wasn't doing this before because of that guy somehow putting pressure on her.

 Also, the first incident of this kind was with a Korean girl in her late 20s who asked me out to lunch and two Korean classmates made a point to walk past our table staring in a very bad form. She was very careful to not show interest in front of our classmates.

 Also, last semester too, in class, I made it a point to sit besides this not-attractive and extremely shy Korean girl who all these holier-than-thou types conspicuously ignored - and help her because she also struggled with the class material. No one seems to have had a problem with "age" then, so I think it's an excuse.

If I had to add the cases with Chinese guys and girls involved, it would be more. I don't because there's another thread about Chinese people acting like this somewhere. A few of these guys are technically Chinese but the circumstances differ. . .

Finally, the guys that do this, it seems to me, are mostly not random guys like it happens with Chinese down the street but actual classmates of mine.

[tysond]

When I first worked in Singapore one of my workmates (a Singaporean) admitted to me that he hated foreigners dating Singaporean women.  But then he said he studied in Australia and found himself wishing he could get an Australian girlfriend.  So he started to understand and said now he wasn't quite so hateful of foreigners dating local girls.

 

But he still gave me dirty looks and often came over to "interfere" if I was ever talking to an attractive local colleague.

 

Unfortunately, according to complaints from girls who I've talked to about this -- this kind of behavior simply makes these guys look even less mature and constrictive.  I think it plays directly into college age girls growing realization that they are more mature than their classmates, they can date guys in their 30s (or older) if they want to, they can date guys that are different or interesting, they can date guys that speak fluently in languages they have been studying for 10+ years, and they can date guys that are not going to expect them to behave the same way as "back home".

 

If you are a guy you'd find all this stuff great (variety? interesting? new ideas? new languages? that's why i left my country in the first place!).  But these girls will be getting pressure from their countrymen not to talk to anyone except the group of guys that are same nationality, same age as them, and to not spoil themselves by dating outside that group.  

 

Approaching you or others surely takes a little bravery and willingness to be judged for their actions.   So just be aware it's not just you "breaking a rule" here, they have to as well, and their "reputation" back home is at stake.  I put these words in quotes because for some reasons these rules and reputations don't apply to guys behavior, only girls.

[Guest realmayo]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago, at a Chinese university living on campus with foreign students mainly from other Asian countries. But although I was friendly with lots of girls, I never had any problems (or was unaware of any). Then again, I got on well with the guys in my class too, made plenty of friends there.

 

If everyone thinks you only want to talk to Korean girls and have no interest in getting to know Korean guys, then obviously Korean guys won't like you. I reckon the same is true for any nationality under the sun.

 

I'm not saying it excuses any intimidatory behaviour.

 

Next time you're sat next to a Korean guy in class, ask him how Koreans say 下课 or similar. Get him to write it. Coo over how interesting Korean script is (it really is interesting!). Ask his Korean name and work out how it matches to the characters of his Chinese name. Whatever you do, don't fight with a Korean -- you'll end up fighting all of them!

[gato]

They see you hanging out alone with one girl after another and probably see you as some of kind of a player. This might be a factor besides the ethnicity issue. Just be aware of different cultural standards for interaction between men and women who are NOT romantically involved. If you had been hanging out with a Muslim girl in one of the Middle East countries, you might even be the target of honor killing by now.

[Demonic_Duck]

I seem to remember last time someone posted a thread along these lines here, it turned out he was a professor at said university rather than a student, and that his behaviour may have been a little creepy. That's not to say it necessarily applies in your case here, of course only you know the real situation.

 

Anyway, I rather like realmayo's advice. Sometimes the diplomatic approach is the best one.

[Alex Whiteman]

Nice post, tysond. It throws light on some things. . . The double standard thing is true too.
I was feeling pretty stressed when I wrote that, now I've chilled - whoever banged my door at night, never confronted me during daytime. My usual friends and acquaintances seem fine.
______

 

realmayo, what you wrote about me is exactly the other way round:

I tried to reach out to some of these guys early in each of the last two semesters and got blatantly blown off.
For these types, if it's western, it has to be a pretty girl, otherwise: nothing - which matches an old post about this particular uni here somewhere.

 

Most notorious was this mid 20s Korean guy last year who was trying to pool together his Asian friends and western girls in one big Weixin group; a friend of him blundered and told me to ask this guy to add me so that I'd hang out with them. I did and he got all stiff and denied the existence of such group.
Then, in class, I'd often catch him leaning over my shoulder to see who I was messaging with on my phone. Then on the breaktime, he'd get up, walk up to where the pretty western girls were sitting and just stand there beside them looking like an angry toddler (lest anyone else approached).
This worked for him for a semester and seems like he was trying to pull it off again at the beginning of this year. . . but appears to have been socially "ejected" during the first month. hahah

He was involved in at least one of these "situations" I've encountered. 

[Guest realmayo]

Alex, sounds like the foreigners on your campus are running on strict racial lines then & there's not much you can do, which is a shame: I wonder if you are simply unlucky with the university you are at, or if I was extremely lucky with mine.

[Alex Whiteman]

I must say I was at another university before and there were a few Asian-Western couples; particularly with Africans. 

Here I have never seen a non-Chinese Asian girl walking down the campus with a non-Asian guy; I really mean never.

There's the occasional Korean/Japanese guy who is "cool" and socializes with foreigners or even dates an European girl but 99% just move around in same-nationality flocks.

_

I'm also counting as incidents a couple girls who were going out of their way to contact me, do me favors, compliment me, even flirt. . . and so I eventually told them "ok, let's meet up for lunch tomorrow". . . instead of saying yes/no like an adult would they panicked, run for the hills, cut communications altogether and seem to have told EVERYONE I had the nerve to do such thing.

 

Of these, the second one had actually agreed and had sent me a chat msg saying "ok, let's go now, here's my phone number just in case" but I was busy and saw the message two hours later. By the time I saw it, she had withdrawn her social media comments on my stuff (which other Asian guys could see) and had all these reasons not to meet up any other day.

Since earlier that day a mutual acquaintance had opened his eyes wide and intervened upon seeing her talking to me (giggling and whatnot) I asked her if her fellow contrymen were giving her a hard time; instead of replying she blocked and deleted me from the chat client. . . and, again, seems to have gone out of her way to gossip about it.

My respite here is having this Korean friend visiting me in a couple of weeks - back then we'd hang out just the two of us without anyone making a fuss. Then again she studied in Europe, speaks fluent English, hangs out almost exclusively with westerners and, if I remember correctly, is just not even interested in going back home.

[Guest realmayo]

instead of saying yes/no like an adult would they panicked

 

To be honest, it sounds like little of what you describe is on a particularly adult footing. Perhaps you're a bit out of your depth with getting used to the different cultural attitudes from all the different nationalities. Maybe hit English corner and find some Chinese people to get to know.

[Alex Whiteman]

I did meet up with a lot of Chinese people last semester, one-on-one language exchange or activity groups (and still do, but less. . .).

This semester I wanted to try something different, but now I see why no one else (at my uni) does.

[Guest realmayo]

Pity. Also, my 'out of your depth' above sounds a bit rude -- could well be that on your particular campus there's just no way to achieve what you want, given how things are split.

[Lu]

Some people just have no clue how to go about making a romantic connection. Standing next to a group of girls scowling, or doing the social media equivalent of running away screaming when a guy asks you for lunch, look quite a bit like indications of cluelessness on their part. No doubt it's partly cultural differences (perhaps Korean girls expect a guy to beat around the bush a lot longer than you planned to and your directness freaks them out), but partly it seems it's immaturity. I hope you can find some friends you can get along with better, surely there must be some people around.

[Demonic_Duck]

Wait, standing around groups of girls scowling doesn't make them instantly want to have your babies? So that's what I've been doing wrong all these years!

[tysond]

 

 

perhaps Korean girls expect a guy to beat around the bush a lot longer than you planned to and your directness freaks them out

 

I don't know if they are freaked out, or putting on a bit of a show to emphasize their innocence and encourage more strenuous chasing.

 

To understand more of how truly stylized this show of chastity can be, consider the Korean Booking Club -  a system of introducing men and women at a club where the girls voluntarily go to the club, "involuntarily" get dragged to a man's table, then have a drink and exchange numbers.  (I have been there and seen it first hand, the article is quite accurate).

[gato]

I'm also counting as incidents a couple girls who were going out of their way to contact me, do me favors, compliment me, even flirt. . . and so I eventually told them "ok, let's meet up for lunch tomorrow". . . instead of saying yes/no like an adult would they panicked, run for the hills, cut communications altogether and seem to have told EVERYONE I had the nerve to do such thing.

 

Could you have mistaken something non-romantic for flirting? That's probably more a reasonable explanation than her panicking. Cutting off communication is a common way of signaling a wish to not be romantically involved. It's not necessarily cultural.

 

Of these, the second one had actually agreed and had sent me a chat msg saying "ok, let's go now, here's my phone number just in case" but I was busy and saw the message two hours later. By the time I saw it, she had withdrawn her social media comments on my stuff (which other Asian guys could see) and had all these reasons not to meet up any other day.

Since earlier that day a mutual acquaintance had opened his eyes wide and intervened upon seeing her talking to me (giggling and whatnot) I asked her if her fellow contrymen were giving her a hard time; instead of replying she blocked and deleted me from the chat client. . . and, again, seems to have gone out of her way to gossip about it.

It may be a good time to lie low for a while since you are getting that negative vibe from so many.