Jealousy towards Westerners (from "other" Asians)

[MPhillips]

How about the government guaranteeing each and every citizen a job? Instead of shrinking the pie, and having minority group members and less fortunate people of European descent squabble over the crumbs that fall on the floor, how about making it big enough so everyone gets a slice?

[studychinese]

MPhillips, I don't like the idea of the government controlling people's lives through employment, but I could get on board with a basic guaranteed income.

[Simon_CH]

Way to derail a topic

[simc]

studychinese, I'm not sure why you have bothered to take all this 1980s radical feminism/critical theory stuff so seriously instead of ignoring it like everyone else.

 

That said, can't help but post my favourite piece:

 

'Flag-flying is a blatantly sexist phallic ritual,' spokesman for the Women's Action Group, Mrs Di Cleary, said. 'The symbolism of raising and lowering the flag once a day is quite obvious.'
Evening Post, Wellington NZ

[MPhillips]

studychinese同志，my esteemed fellow student of Chinese, sad to say the B.I.G. (basic income guarantee) is a Trojan horse. The job guarantee (J.G.) works, discriminates against no one, and would lead to Socialism & eventually Communism. If I weren't writing from a phone I could provide you with relevant links to various Modern Monetary Theory (M.M.T.) sites. Please do not allow yourself to be taken in by B.I.G. & its proponents. The fact that one of our most evil US plutocrats, Pete Petersen's website has come out in favor of the B.I.G. should tell you something.

PS: A modern economy is by its very nature "state-socialist", the question is in who's favor should a modern, state-socialist economy be run?

[studychinese]

Yeah, but I don't want socialism or communism, and MMT belongs in Zimbabwe not in the West.

[studychinese]

Yes, the topic was derailed because we were trolled by 'Kate'.

[MPhillips]

Pardon me, but it's the exact reverse, please do check your facts, the B.I.G. is hyperinflationary (prima facie). An expanding money supply chasing a dwindling supply of goods & services = hyperinflation. Just handing people money results in inflation , witness the inflationary U.S. social welfare programs of the 70's (of course, in the big picture the oil shock was inflation-wise a much bigger culprit, also despite all the vilification Nixon receives, his policy of wage & price control did work to some extent), while they were far better than nothing, still they were much inferior to a job guarantee (which the U.S. had, well at least something approaching one, during the Franklin Roosevelt administration).

Well if you, amongst others settle for the status quo (of course what you're pining for is the status quo ante, hmm, I don't know 1920 or so) the social problems you're so troubled by will never go away. Take your pick, rational economic policy or social strife. If you are not amongst the top 1 or 2 percent you'll probably be ending up on the losing end of the social strife option.

[studychinese]

The 70s was the period when the US government decided to pay its bills by printing money, which is the basis of MMT. I wouldn't support a BIG in which printing money was the way it was paid.

A BIG would have to implemented in the context of banking reform, specifically the way checking accounts are dealt with by banks (they should be 100% reserve and not loaned out).

MMT is a resurrection of the greenbackers. Hell of a lot of inflation back then.

[MPhillips]

Sovereign states don't "pay bills" by printing money, it's a bad idea to apply the household finance model to a nation's finances. A JG would end inflation not provoke it. Zimbabwe's root problem isn't printing too many greenbacks (well actually pieces of paper with pictures of Rbt. Mugabe on them I suppose), but possessing an underdeveloped economy with very few goods & services to purchase with Zimbabwean currency. The value of goods and services produced is what backs a currency. When the US was on the gold standard it was the value of the goods & services produced that in turn gave gold its value. Your perfect BIG world where purportedly people needn't work to earn a living doesn't differ much from Zimbabwe. Few goods & services worth purchasing + free money = hyperinflation.

EDIT: Let's stick to China, shall we--China which doesn't stint on public investment booms while the West crumbles into decay--what if we guaranteed everyone a job rebuilding the infrastructure--imagine how much better all the vying groups would get along with no one out of work? I haven't seen a truly major public works project attempted in the US since around 1975.

[roddy]

Actually Kate was a genuine poster. I suspect the reason she hasn't posted again is the poor quality of the 'discussion' and being accused of being a troll. Well done. You trolled yourself. 

[studychinese]

If Kate is a legitimate poster it is a shame that she chose her first post here to be a hen pecking one, not relevant to the OP or even the work, life and study in general board.

All I could see was a classic thread derailing tactic commonly used by trolls. Lacking telepathy I can't tell what Kate' intentions may have been, only the effect that it had on this thread.

I would be interested to see if she has any thoughts on Chinese language and Chinese language acquisition.

[roddy]

Oh diddums, were you hen-pecked? Here, admin kiss it better: 

[studychinese]

MP, China needs to put its vast amounts of surplus money somewhere, otherwise it will just end up in the very shady world of US bonds. Note that the Chinese government doesn't trust the US government with their gold, a position vindicated after the US Federal Reserve robbed the German government of its gold (lol).

A BIG shouldn't be so generous that people don't need to work. It should be strictly survival levels.

MMT assumes that the central planners are always going to make good decisions about infrastructure (a pyramid dedicated to our leader? Yes please!), and that infrastructure will be competently built. I doubt that it would work in the real world. All the communist governments had every tool they needed to turn MMT lead into gold, and all of them failed.

[studychinese]

Roddy, I do feel better. In fact if we are to have thought police I would prefer that person be an actual moderator, not a first time poster.

Anyway if this type of topic is forbidden, or taking a dissenting view is forbidden just saw the word and I will desist. One of the reasons I like it here is because this place is decidedly non-political and very focused.

[roddy]

It's not forbidden, it's just clearly way off topic (does "not relevant to the OP or even the work, life and study in general board" ring any bells?) and frankly boring. Blah blah blah poor men blah blah blah BushBlair is a war criminal blah blah blah. Anyone needs an outlet for that kind of stuff, I'm sure the Internet provides one. Do us both a favour and save me the forbidding. Go on, don't anyone post in this topic again. Dare you. Oooh, tough, ain't it... jonesing for the last word, huh...

[imron]

Anyway if this type of topic is forbidden, or taking a dissenting view is forbidden

It's not forbidden, but this thread has veered so far off-topic that it probably needs to be either split or closed, and personally I can't be bothered splitting it. Roddy?

[studychinese]

A split at Kate first post works for me. Rescues this thread.

[MPhillips]

SC: A) Doesn't China hold on to huge dollar reserves to insure against another financial crisis such as occurred in 1997? It took Korea an awfully long time to recover from that one.

B) If all the BIG amounts to is the bare minimum needed to stave off starvation we have that already here it's called "welfare" (I imagine in Australia it would be called the dole). Why bother to give a new name to the same old demeaning system?

C) As far as public investment being diverted to ends that don't serve the public good, we here in the US certainly know what that's like! Frankly, though I certainly wouldn't enjoy the sight, I'd far rather Barack Obama take the US's war-machine budget & divert it to building a golden pyramid to himself than for things to go on the way they are. Of course as horrible as it is for the rest of the world, when military Keynesianism is the only kind that's allowed, in a sense you've got to accept it, faute de mieux.

D) Why not give China more credit for making wise public investments? Instead of using most of their resources to invade half the world they have built a high-speed rail system with more miles of track than the rest of the world put together (amongst other very worthwile projects). I think if you were to visit the benighted states you would truly be appalled at the shambles that has resulted from the 40 or so years of disinvestment we have had to endure.

[studychinese]

BIG is different to welfare because it avoids the welfare trap. People getting welfare lose it if they work. Under a BIG everyone gets a payment from the poor to the billionaires.