Calling out my 师傅 - good or bad idea?

[xiaojiang216]

Hi everyone,

I have yet to get caught up on my other postings, but I have encountered a situation I'm unsure about and thought a discussion about it might help others studying martial arts and living in China as well. I haven't seen any postings on this topic, but please forgive me if I'm mistaken.

Having studied martial arts for ten years or so, I have been learning 咏春拳 here in China for about a year. Overall, I enjoy it and have made quite a few friends. I don't enjoy it, however, when my 师傅 behaves in a certain way, and I am wondering about whether or not I should call him out on it.

It is not uncommon for him to accidentally hit a student when demonstrating something, usually a punch to the face. When this happens, the teacher does not apologize, but rather tells the student that he or she "should have dodged it" or "shouldn't have moved" when they were simply standing in place. After kicking me in the leg several times during a different demonstration, he boasted that he was "not kicking as hard as he could." Uh... should he have been? It is also not unusual to hear him telling stories about him beating someone up.

Am I overreacting when this behavior makes me upset? I feel that a martial arts instructor (at least nowadays) has a very serious responsibility to instruct students without injuring them, and that there is no reason for showing off. As students, we already believe in his ability, otherwise we would not study with him in the first place. Is my Western perspective getting in the way here? Injuring students would probably not go over well in the West, but I understand that being tough on students is an instruction method in itself. Is there a line being crossed here, though?

That said, has anyone else encountered a similar situation, and should I say something? I imagine that he could get quite defensive about it, so maybe I could bring it up to an assistant? Or should I just quietly find another place to study? Many thanks for your time and advice

 

[rezaf]

Why don't you suggest using protective gear? I think it is a must for hobbyists to use them. Professional martial artists don't use them for reasons but they know the risks and get injured all the time.

[xiaojiang216]

Hi rezaf, we often do wear protective gear and actually were at the time, although just for the forearms and shins. That doesn't help for hits to the face and upper leg, but perhaps making the suggestion to wear gloves during certain demonstrations would be less confrontational? I can see him explaining why he shouldn't, or being even less careful when wearing gloves, but maybe I should throw it out there. Thanks for the suggestion!

[陳德聰]

I got a little bit angry when I read about this behaviour. It strikes me as extremely immature. Is your teacher well-known?

 

I don't think "calling out" your teacher is really going to benefit anyone. In fact, I think it will make you look bad if you were to do so in front of other students. I do think you need to find a new teacher, though.

[rezaf]

You could suggest MMA gloves or if he doesn't wear them you could wear headgear. Even with these things on you have all kinds of injuries in places that allow full contact. Anyway I don't think you could change his teaching method so if you think training there has more risks than you are prepared for just go somewhere else.

[xiaojiang216]

Thanks, 陳德聰 and rezaf!

陳德聰 - My teacher may be somewhat well-known in the area, and we've had a TV station and magazine reporter come to the school before. He is quite young (probably mid-thirties), and perhaps I am not used to this behavior having studied under instructors much older (in their forties, fifties, sixties, even eighties and nineties!).

"Calling out" was the phrase I thought of when writing this post, but it is not my intention to speak with him in front of anyone. Sometimes when these things happen, though, I just want to say something right there and then. If I were to say something, though, I think I would speak with him in private or speak privately with an assistant.

 

rezaf - I think the problem is that full contact is not allowed, and when these things happen, we are not sparring - students are almost always just standing there and the instructor is demonstrating a technique, not intending to make (heavy) contact. I have sparred at my school in the U.S., and unexpected contact and injuries happen occasionally, but the person who is at "fault" always takes responsibility and is respectful.
 

Having known my instructor for almost a year now, I think that having a student throw on headgear or him putting on gloves would possibly make the situation worse. He might feel more comfortable using more speed and force. I think what I'm struggling with is more of a lack of responsibility being taken for the instructor's actions.

Thank you both again!

[gato]

It seems that this really bothers you. I would start trying out other teachers. This is a personality problem. You are not going to be able to change him. You have to either learn to live with it or move on.

[xiaojiang216]

gato - You're right, I'm not going to be able to change him and it's a clash in personalities. Thank you, your post has made me realize that I often find myself trying to change things I cannot change. My instructor's brother actually also teaches nearby, and I think we would be much more compatible on a personality level.

I just worry that someone is going to get seriously hurt (I've seen this happen to several younger students). Have any others been in a similar situation when studying martial arts in China? Thanks again for everyone's responses!

[abcdefg]

I would leave there so fast it would make your head spin and never look back or give it a second thought. That guy is a menace and he's taking advantage of his status to work out some internal aggressions on his students. He won't change with a few kind words; doubt that he can.

[rezaf]

I don't know your teacher so I can't say wether he does that as part of the training to make you tough or he just wants to show off (or maybe empty his anger) but whatever the reason is it seems that he can't distinguish between demonstration, sparring and fighting. Unfortunately many kungfu instructors have the same problem and don't have a systematic approach towards these three levels.

[Ruben von Zwack]

Sorry your having this bad experience at the moment!

I don't have any similar experience literally, I never practiced martial arts, but I whole heartedly agree to abcdefg.

I have been a lifeguard swimmer, but in the end, when a guy like that was in our team, I quit. You may wonder, how can you hurt your team mates in swimming? But the training is tough and full of opportunity to smack and drown others.
It's just immature and, in my personal opinion, a whole bunch of other unpleasant character traits.
I also find it totally ruins the atmosphere in a team. Sometimes you need to argue over decisions and strategies, and I find it difficult to argue with someone when adrenaline is high from the competition anyway, and I have the feeling the other person takes more pleasure out of hitting me than they should.

 

I don't believe there is any use in talking sense into people who got it so fundamentally wrong. Personally, I would quietly look for another school, quit, and when they ask you why, be truthful.

 

Anyway, good luck!

[Meng Lelan]

What #4 said sums it up perfectly. In my kungfu class when my teachers demonstrate something that has to done on someone else (like where a kick goes or where the fist is to be aimed), the other person is made to wear some protective gear first. Usually the teacher will slow down or use less force than usual though. 

[guest1234]

HI

 

This is not the way for a teacher to act towards a student. in the old days this would happen but not now. Wuhan is not known for wing chun but will have plenty of good old style traditional teachers.

My suggestion is to leave that school NOW, Ask around about local teachers or look at the parks in the early morning, take your time and find someone who you like and teaches a style that fits your body type.

I only know Beijing and Fujian for teachers but you could ask on www.rumsoakedfist.org they can be helpful there. There are some very good teachers in China but finding them is the hard part. i have been very lucky and met many great teachers and all have been open and friendly and would never hurt a student, it shows great lack of skill.

 

Regards

 

Phil

[prophecy]

Having studied Wing Chun before myself for several years under a Chinese teacher I can honestly say I never had this problem.

 

Sifu had very very good control, and it would be very rare for anyone to be injured accidentally during a demonstration. Really you don't need to use force for a demonstration, Wing Chun is very soft for the most part.

 

I would immediately find a different teacher, I suspect your teacher's not very skilled. This sort of unprofessionalism and arrogance is just a cover up for a general lack of ability. There's a lot of bad wing chun practitioners out there, so be careful who you choose. Take your money to someone who deserves it.

[xiaojiang216]

Many thanks again for everyone's responses and advice! I just spoke with my 师兄, who used to be a 教练 at the school, and it turns out that he left for similar reasons. I think I might try the other school, but also do some research - thanks bagua for the link! Perhaps I will also look into other styles that might be particularly well-known in the area. Thanks again, everyone!

[abcdefg]

Sounds like a good decision. Hope it works out well.

[xiaojiang216]

Thank you, abcdefg!