Mandarin zone - private mandarin school / LTL

[GdzLL]

Hello everybody!

 

So it's my first post here on the forums, even though I have been looking for information here regarding China for for quite some time.

I'm traveling to China in July and I'm still in search of a good private school that I'd like to attend. I'm planning on doing 2 weeks of school and 2 weeks of traveling, probably going to stick to Beijing, Shanghai and Xi'an. I have studied Mandarin for 10 months now, and finished NPCR 3, which would make me an elemenatry learner (?) .

 

I have been looking for schools, and a few that have caught my interest have been Ltl and Mandarin zone. I know that Ltl has been receiving outstanding reviews in terms of quality of teaching, and I have been in contact with the school. They seem very professional, serious about what they do and you'll definitely be getting value for your money. But I'm a student, and budget is big for me. They are offering 1on1, 2 weeks,  60 min class,  20 h/week for 8462 rmb. That'd be about 211 rmb/hour. Is this a bit on the expensive side? I don't know the current situation with private schools and what the general price is for an hour of private tutoring, but I'd believe you could get good tutoring for 100 rmb / hour? Now I don't have experience regarding this, that's why I'm asking!

 

Another school is Mandarin Zone in Beijing, offering 1on1, 2 weeks, 50 min class, 20/h week for 5200 rmb. That'd be 130 rmb/ hour. Anybody got experience regarding this school?

 

Does somebody have other suggestions, tutors, private teachers? Group classes? I've studied through books this entire year, and I'm in need of tons of practical learning. Is 130 the lowest I can get, or could I get good tutoring for an even lower price? A bonus with these schools is that they are offering homestays --> tons of practice!

 

I've applied for a tourist visa, and I saw a post regarding student visas. Would I still be able to go to school with a tourist visa, or am I looking at 4 weeks of traveling? ( )

 

Thank you very much in advance !

[roddy]

Welcome to the site! Introduce yourself if you like ;-)

 

You could possibly save a lot of money finding a tutor yourself - but you haven't got much time to work with. If it takes you a week to find someone good, you've lost half your study time.

[GdzLL]

Thank you!

 

Do you have any good links with information regarding private tutors? How much do these tutors charge nowadays? Are we talking 50-100 rmb ?

I'm also thinking about time, going to China for the first time is quite rough on it's own, culture shock + finding a private tutor on top of that. I think school is the way to go, just which one is the question. 130 rmb/hour seems to be the cheapest I can get, no?

 

Cheers!

[Ruben von Zwack]

Hello and welcome!

 

I did something similar to you last autumn. Of course you can go and have mandarin classes, and just do as you please, on a tourist visa, as long as you don't take up working, start a business, or enroll in university ;)

To avoid confusion, just don't mention anything about studying on your visa application form. You are a tourist - which is the truth anyway - and that's it.

 

LTL is on the expensive side, but on the other hand, I don't think you can find decent tutoring for under 130,-/hour. If you do, then those won't be professional teachers. The way I see it is, you get more of your money's worth with a professional teacher.

I had classes at 1on1 Mandarin in Wudaokou.

I had been in contact with LTL too, but frankly can't afford it.

Another school that I was in contact with was Purple Bamboo (just do an internet search for purple bamboo chinese school Beijing). They don't use textbooks, and they asked me what my Mandarin level is and what I want to learn and what my plans are, and then came up with an individual study plan. But by that time I had already signed up with 1on1. Otherwise I would have tried Purple Bamboo.

There are a lot of language schools in Beijing, there were 1 or 2 more even in the same building as my school (1on1). But, again, I don't think you can find a much lower price, and if you do, it might be a partial waste of time.

 

You may consider saving money on accomodation instead. I was in single rooms the first few days, but then I changed to staying in dorms, even mixed ones (in Xi'An), and always found peaceful and just plain nice ones.

And as there are 80% Chinese, 19% travellers from Japan and Korea, and you, you will be super immersed, like, you'll have to take all your courage and politely ask the grumpy Chinese cleaning lady how to operate the laundry machine. And you'll have to use Chinese to communicate with other travellers. From my experience, everyone, even the venerable Grandpa in Mao suit, will be very curious when they notice you understand Chinese, and strike up a conversation with you. And I'm a girl so I don't know if it's different with guys, but Chinese girls were enthusiastic when I signalled I understand and speak some Chinese, asking me to join on activities, dinner, etc. So I was super immersed and never feeling lonesome or isolated.

 

Anyway, however you decide, I am sure you will have a fabulous time!

 

Edit: PS: I didn't find China rough at all and didn't get a culture shock. Maybe it depends on where you're from and which other countries you've been to before. But I understand the worry of course.

[hedwards]

@Ruben, I think it really depends where you are. Also a great deal on your luck.

 

But, I would definitely expect culture shock for anybody that doesn't stay sequestered in laowai hotspots. Xi'an is quite western compared with a lot of other parts of China. If you're fortunate enough to have stability most of the time, then it's certainly possible to mostly avoid culture shock, but unless you're Chinese is good before you go there, it's inevitable that you'll eventually realize just how helpless you are and how much of the things you used to do easily back home are exceedingly difficult.

 

Then you either figure out how to make peace with it or you go nuts.

[Ruben von Zwack]

Well I did find myself in some ridiculously uncomfortable situations at times. Like, hard seat in a 14 hour overnight train, the window seat I had a reservation for occupied by some sun-burnt fellow healthily snoring and drooling away, his face buried in a pile of sunflower seeds and empty beer cans, so I had to sit on the corner with no armrest and nothing to lean against (apart from this gentleman), and every time I pulled my scarf up cause the air con was chilling, the guard hit me and said "you cannot 包 your face" (I guess he was some form of sadist or whatever) - so no sleep, freezing, no place to even stretch your legs cause it's so cramped with everyone's luggage, and on top of that 4 hours delay. I did feel exhausted and helpless and it sucked mighty, but it didn't give me a culture shock. I think I was close to culture shock in India, where I found myself in situations like that every day constantly, until I went numb and started counting days until I could leave country.
 

True about being helpless. I agree that the easiest things like buying a SIM card are exceedingly difficult. Even when the people are patient and absolutely willing to help you. Every word of Chinese that you know counts really.

[abcdefg]

I've applied for a tourist visa, and I saw a post regarding student visas. Would I still be able to go to school with a tourist visa, or am I looking at 4 weeks of traveling?

 

You can definitely study on a tourist visa.

 

130 rmb/hour seems to be the cheapest I can get, no?

 

For somewhat cheaper study prices, look into cities where the cost of living is lower. Beijing and Shanghai are notoriously expensive places to purchase almost any goods or services.

[James3]

I'm in the process of working out the details for a trip to Harbin, and the price I'm expecting to pay for Mandarin lessons is around 100 rmb/hour.

[abcdefg]

One to one teaching in Kunming is also usually about 100 RMB an hour. That's for the services of a trained teacher who is doing it for a living. About half that for a graduate student with less experience.

[GdzLL]

I got a reply from Mandarin Zone, and from what they wrote to me, the teaching methodology is what I'm looking for; intuitive and communicaton-focused.

 

"

Teaching---Communicative Teaching MethodologyWe focus on improving students′ ability to communicate in Chinese, emphasis a more communicative method. In the classroom, the teacher will create, through active teacher-student communication, an enjoyable, focused learning environment to expand what the students′ have learned. By practicing with maximum opportunity to speak Chinese, students′ ability to communicate in Chinese will be greatly improved.

Students are main role in the classroom, teacher just to help them and  lead the class, helping students find their mistakes and correct; You will also learn from life when you are in Beijing!"

 

Haven't gotten any feedback on the school though, seems like nobody so far on the board has heard or been to the school.

[zhouhaochen]

first things first: I work for LTL Mandarin School!

 

A quick explantion on pricing from a schools perspective:

 

I remember how I was outraged at some pricing structures before starting LTL and just over time started to realize where some of them came from (some were simply rip offs, but that is a different story).

 

For a school like LTL that employs a) professional (in our case with a degree in 对外汉语 or Teaching Chinese as a Foreign Language) and b) full time teachers, there are two main components to the cost.

The first is rather obvious, a professional, trained teacher with work experience will cost more money than someone who just started doing this or was not trained in teaching. Unfortunately still very few people are willing to pay the premium for a trained teacher, which is why the majority of schools offer extremely cheap classes and corresponding conditions for their teachers. That is why a lot of teachers once they taught for a while and started to become good stop teaching Mandarin and do something else. For someone with a good university degree, English language skills and experience with foreigners it is simply much easier to earn money in another industry (easy example is teaching Chinese kids, where an hourly rate of 400 CNY and more for a good teacher is quite comment). A school that wants experienced and professional teachers has to pay more than other schools (usually significantly more), which also means they can pick their teachers, as there are very few schools doing this. Those "high paying" schools very rarely loose a teacher to another school (for us, I do not know of a single case), the only risk is that teachers switch to other industries, as salaries are simply higher (or get married and move, but that is another story...). The good part is, that the teacher who are experienced, qualified and have other options but continue to teach Chinese, really teach Chinese because they love doing it, which is what you (and we) want.

So there is a strong relationship between how much you pay and what you get - unless of course the school tries to rip you off. To avoid that, obviously do your research beforehand.

 

My first point: If you want an experienced and qualified teacher, you need to pay a premium. There is no other way of regularly supplying high teaching standards for a school I am aware of o (if anyone knows of one, I am happy for all suggestions).

 

The second part, which is a bit less obvious is how class scheduling works for full time teachers. To stop qualifies teachers from moving to other industries any high end Chinese school needs to employ it's teachers full time, pay social insurances, fixed salaries etc. (which is standard in most other industries). That means these teachers get at least a base salary, social insurance etc. if they teach a student or not. Thus there will always be periods (sometimes shorter, sometimes longer, we - and I am pretty much everyone else - work with an average) when a full time teacher does not teach, but still gets paid. If you want a full time teacher (and pretty much anyone who teaches professionaly, is willing to invest into their own training and want to do it long term, would not consider anything except a full time job, including social insurance) that cost has to be included in prices. That is why a short course, will cost a lot more "per hour“ than a longer one, as the "risk" of having to pay a teacher without work only occurs once (at the end of the course). For a longer course that risk can be distributed over a larger number of hours, reducing costs.

 

My second point: Comparisons of "how much I pay per hour" are potentially misleading. If you want a full time teacher, you will always end up with a higher cost for a short course than a longer one (even though in the end the "product" you get is always the same: an hour of studying Chinese, just the cost to produce that  "product" is very different".)

 

Obviously, there is more to it, but those are the two main factors and before I bore everyone any futher with how to calculate teaching price structures (by far the most boring part of my job), I will leave it with this.

 

I hope that clarified a bit where those costs can come from. If you study a 1-on-1 class for example for 12 weeks at LTL, the "per hour" cost is 154CNY not 211CNY.

Of course that is not really relevant for you, as I assume you just have two weeks time. I would say you usually pay what you get for, so you have to decide what you want. You can have a great time in China and also learn Chinese with a not full-time and not so experienced teacher and it saves money. You might get lucky and just happen to run into an amazing teacher who happens to be willing to work part-time or for less money.

At the same time, chances are that with a full-time and professional teacher you will progress faster (in some cases significantly) and it will take less time to reach the same level of Chinese. So that's what you will most likely be doing: trading time for money (plus maybe a few other service aspects, like visas, accommodation, social community, local support etc.)

 

just to make sure, here again: while I am pretty convinced of the fact that LTL or high quality education in general is very much worth the money, do not forget: I work for LTL

[GdzLL]

Hey all!

 

So I spent 2 weeks in Beijing studying at Mandarin Zone, and I can do nothing but highly recommend the school! First of all, the management is excellent. The leader of the school is super-friendly, clear, helpful and clearly cares about the school and the students there. The homestay that was arranged for me was great, and I felt very welcome there, the family was so friendly and helpful. I had breakfast and dinner at the home, both being delicious and varied! My laundry was also washed by the mom and the father helped me with schoolwork! A very caring family!

 

I had school 5 times/ week, from 9.30 - 13.20. 20 minutes of break in total. It was very intense, but very rewarding. I had problems with grammar, but through persistent explaining and tons of examples, I was able to get a good grasp on it. I had studied for 9 months prior, but grammar-wise my language was a total mess. 2 weeks had a huge impact on that. The books we used for grammar were "New Practical Chinese Reader" and for examples and practical language "Short-term spoken chinese". Especially the practical book was very helpful!

 

The price that was offered for me was the cheapest I could find, and I'm very happy with my choice, and would love to take lessons at the school in the future. The teacher helped me with tons of practical arranging as well, such as buying a sim card, train tickets, hostels etc. Wonderful school and people! Highly recommended!

[Gao Feng Goldkind]

I'd like to give my ¥2 here, for anyone looking for instruction.  I'm currently studying at Mandarin Zone and have been for the last 3 weeks.  I'm extremely pleased with everything and everyone at the school.  Margaret is the manager (owner, too?) is very kind, helpful and conscientious and my teacher, Miao, with whom I've been taking one-on-one lessons is a fantastic teacher.  She's smart, fun and knows not just how to speak but how to teach.  I came in knowing ZERO Chinese and now feel like I'm establishing a decent basis in the language.  Not only that but my time at MZ has fostered a real love of the language such that I am hopeful that I'll find the time and resources to continue when I return to the US (which is, sadly, just a week from now).  I should say that I've studied many foreign languages in the past and I'm finding this course of study as good or better than any that I've had in the past.  I recommend The Mandarin Zone without reservation. 

[Chris from Melbourne]

Hi, I also have studied at Mandarin Zone and can only agree with the comments from other past and current students.

I stayed with a retired couple who were delightful, but had no English what-so-ever - so I was forced to use the language after school hours as well. Immersion, or more correctly, floundering around and at times utterly befuddling my hosts!!!

My tutors were two delightful women undertaking masters studies in language education - so they were educators, not just someone who could speak the language. My Mandarin was little better than beginner, so they used course material relevant to my level. I've also used private tutors in Shanghai and Chengdu, and whilst more casual and a little cheaper, I didn't get the gain in knowledge I got at Mandarin Zone which is very intensive. Tutors I can do in Aus, but true immersion can only be done in PRC.

Marguerita - the owner of the business - monitored my progress, and checked on my tutors, I guess the advantage of a smaller language school. I was a happy camper, and would love to return, but for a longer period of time. Two weeks definitely not enough time.