Avoiding Visa Girls

[Xuesheng1937]

This is a bit of a sensitive topic for me.

I am an american, and have been learning mandarin for a bit now. I dated this chinese girl (from mainland china) for about a year. I was the happiest person ever, felt comfortable to be myself around her, we had a lot of things in common, and she even enjoyed helping me learn mandarin. However, I had come to find out that this guy from Canada that was supposedly her "friend" was actually a chinese-canadian who she met through a chinese dating site AFTER she had been dating me for a few months. What I find odd is that by all accounts, she hated this guy, found him annoying, and he seemed quite obsessive. Needless to say, I was devastated when I found out, but still tried to forgive her and make things work... But then found out she had sex with him less than 24 hours after that. At that point I couldn't continue any longer and we broke up.

She actually emailed me a few months after that and apologized, saying she purposely had hurt me (why I still don't know)... then shared with me that she had gotten married to yet another guy. So, at this point I can only assume that was her goal the entire time, to get married to stay in america.

So, my question is, is this a common occurence? It's now been about 9 months since we broke up, and I am trying to start dating again, but I do not want to ever go through that again. What are some signs I can look for if that is the motive on their part?

[ChTTay]

I am sorry to hear about your experience. I only know what you have said above but i'm not sure i'd come to the same 'visa' conclusion as you have. Of course, you would definitely know more about that than me.

Did she ever mention marriage to you, subtly or otherwise? Or seem very keen to get married to you? Surely it would have been easier to attempt to marry you, as you had a seemingly good relationship built up after one year, rather than find some other random guy and have sex with him in the hope of chasing a visa.

Anyway, as for signs, I know someone who ended up marrying a women from a non-EU European country. In this case, the women really was just chasing Visa/Passport. However, many saw the signs. They met online on a dating site and their whole initial relationship of 3-6 months was built online and on the phone. He went to her country to visit her. The second him he visited her they got married. She moved to the UK, proceeded to spend a lot of his money, then when the money ran out, she left him for another man (who did have money).

I guess this post isn't that helpful. I hope others can chime in and offer some better advice.

[Demonic_Duck]

Your story sounds pretty messed up, but I agree with ChTTay above that it doesn't instantly make me jump to the visa conclusion (particularly the part where you say she admitted she "purposely hurt you"... to me that just sounds like she has mental health issues, unless you'd seriously wronged her in some way beforehand).

 

I'm not really sure what advice to give, except that a) don't let this tarnish your opinion of Chinese women (yes, broadly speaking there exist cultural differences, but they don't include being more prone to lying or cheating), and conversely b) don't restrict your options for potential partners to any specific nationality or ethnicity.

[Xuesheng1937]

Yeah, just from that information it doesn't seem so. However, it's a few things that trigger that thought process for me:

1.) She ended up marrying a guy less than 5 months after we broke up.

2.) She was here on a school/student visa... but despite her obvious intelligence, didn't seem to put much effort into her schooling, jeopardizing the future of that visa.

3.) I was just using her laptop looking for a song I found one day and found she had a lot of stuff bookmarked related to marriage and visa's... At the time, I figured it may have just been research out of general interest.

4.) She used the chinese-canadian guy for his money, something on the order of $12,000 or more from what I can estimate. She said she asked him for money because she knew I didn't have much... But she only needed that money because she spent it like crazy. At first I thought her parents were just wealthy, but it largely came from him (or others).

 

And yeah, she said she purposely had hurt me, but that I never did anything wrong and was always quite understanding.

However, I think you guys may be right, maybe she was just crazy, lol. I do agree that I shouldn't limit my choices to a particular ethnicity. I will admit, I do have a preference, but I have made sure to broaden my search to include any and all people. I will also admit, I haven't dated much, so I have both a lack of experience in that realm as well as dating someone of chinese nationality, hence my coming here for clarification.

 

P.s. I have indeed left out some details... It actally is even more messed up than what I am giving, but figured only the relevant details need to be said.

[Shelley]

I don't think youcan tell if they are just after a visa by any particular traits.

 

If you feel you need some way of telling, try being broke and not the "marrying type"

 

With out going over the top don,t appear to have loads of money and appear reluctant to get married.

 

This should weed out the money grabbing, visa girls BUT remember there is no hard and fast way to avoid this kind of gold digging girls in any country or culture.

 

I think you got a bad one there and hopefully you find a girl that will be suitable for you and her.

[Demonic_Duck]

Fair enough, your reason #3 would seem to indicate that getting a visa was at least a concern to her, though it still sounds to me like there were some other underlying issues there.

[Lu]

That sounds messed up, sorry to hear you went through that. I agree with other posters that it might not have been just a visa thing, she might well have been rather messed up in general.

There's probably no surefire way to avoid such women (well, if you only date women with the same passport as you). You can look for warning signs and keep the conversation open. Obvious signs to watch out for are a visa situation that is insecure or will soon be insecure, or her pushing to marry you as soon as possible. If you're dating a foreigner, it's not weird to ask how they manage their visa situation, not to check on them, but out of interest. Make sure you can talk with her about important issues, so you have an idea what's going on in her life, what is important to her, how she handles problems, etc. (And so she can learn the same about you, so that you two can have a healthy relationship.) Also ask your friends for their opinion, and listen carefully, because if there is something dodgy, you might be unwilling to see it because you're in love, but outsiders might spot it from a mile away.

Good luck out there!

[Silent]

Some are better in acting then others, so the only sure way to avoid girls that are after a visa is date only girls with your own nationality.

 

That said, when they are after money or a visa you notice quite easy as they will tend to bring up the subject one way or another on a regular basis. The gold digger type usually encourages to spend money while the more genuine tend to encourage you to save/be budget minded specially when they're from a poor background. 

 

An approach may be to make clear that you're poor and act like it (cheap, worn clothes, public transport rather then taxi, cheap hotels etc) and tell you've a poorly paid job like garbage collector or something alike. Tell that if it gets serious you intend to move to her country instead of the other way around due to financials, visa issue's etc. It also helps if you approach them instead of the other way around specially at 'risky' places like dating sites, bars etc as the 'bad' ones are far more likely to approach you then the 'good' ones.

[Nathan Mao]

There are at least two sites dedicated to Americans bringing over Chinese on engagement visas, and/or family visas after marriage, and/or converting visas to permanent residence:

 

The original:

candleforlove.com/forums/

 

The split-off:

www.chinafamilyvisa.com/

 

LOTS of discussions on those sites about red flags, resolving cultural conflicts, understanding different emotional standards (that often lead to Americans erroneously assuming their Chinese spouse is bipolar), etc...

[Xuesheng1937]

All I can say is thank you everyone for your advice. It helps me just get a bit more insight and secondary opinions. Though I would like to state that I don't think all foreign girls are going after visa's or anything like that. Just given the eventual outcome, that is the only way I could try to reason what happened in my particular relationship. I too hope she has finally found happiness in her marriage, obviously I care(d) about her and wish nothing less. I also hope to eventually find someone else that wouldn't dare to hurt me in the same fashion... moving on from that relationship has been a challenge for me, I will admit, but that is part of the game isn't it.

[JustinJJ]

I think you develop a better sense for who the visa girls/gold diggers are after experience. The more time you spend in China and the more Chinese people you know, the easier it becomes to differentiate the good from the bad.

 

In a similar way, in China I saw Chinese girls getting 骗ed by Westerners who to other Westerners could be recognised as being dodgy in half a second, but as they didn't have enough experience with Western culture they didn't realise those guys were bad eggs. With Chinese girls it's the same, you get used to knowing who the normal ones are and who the dodgy ones are and what behaviour is not normal.

 

Regarding passport chasers specifically, I'd suggest pursuing those who are hard-working, smart and could already get a visa/passport without relying on a guy i.e. those who can rely on their own ability. There's never a guarantee, but that might be a safer option.  

[abcdefg]

Not really a very rare or surprising sequence of events. 

 

The girl made it abroad via a temporary study visa. But she discovered she doesn't really like the academic life. She's now trying to "trade up" by finding someone who has more money and is marriage minded. That way she can live in your country more comfortably and for a longer time. She can also eventually bring her relatives over.

 

There may also have been interpersonal clues that you missed; signs that she wasn't as happy with your relationship as you thought. ("Love is blind.")

 

All this has more to do with being foreign than being Chinese.

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Footnote: This interpretation is coming from a cynical guy who is happily divorced.

[imron]

The positive way to look at it is she thought highly enough of you not to gold dig/visa marry you, and knowing that what she wanted was different from what you wanted, did something to make sure you had no illusions about continuing a relationship with her, probably because she figured it was the most expedient and least painful way to make you realise that. There's a saying in Chinese 长痛不如短痛, which means short pain is better than prolonged pain.

[roddy]

A piece of unsolicited advice which you're welcome to ignore:

 

If you haven't done much dating and are finding it problematic, don't complicate things by doing it across cultural and linguistic barriers. It does not make things easier. 

[陳德聰]

Second that. Especially if you're the type of person who thinks it's relevant to point out the Canadian guy (damn those canucks) is "Chinese-Canadian" in this scenario, you may want some more cross-cultural experience in a non-relationship context first.

[Xuesheng1937]

Yeah, I only mentioned that he is chinese-canadian, because he is originally from china himself. I am not sure if that had any relevance, like perhaps she was more comfortable with someone of a similar background, but I definitely understand that point.

Regarding us having issues beforehand, the only issue I was aware of is that she said I treat her too equally, in terms of gender roles. I am not sure if this is something particular to chinese culture or just to her, but it was easy enough for me to adjust to. I would consider the behavoir slightly controlling, but she was happier when I would make decisions for her, such as what she would eat at a restuarant and such.

I agree that it is certainly more complex to have a multicultural relationship, however, if I can be happy with someone then I won't let their culture get in the way. I was more than happy to learn about any and all cultural differences and understand them. For me, that wasn't ever an issue. I, of course, would have liked less sneaking around behind my back and cheating on me. That, I assume, is not something cultural and would be seen as deceptive no matter where you are.