Seeking a collaborator for translation of a Han Dynasty work

[CJGait]

I am a self-taught student of Chinese. I have undertaken the translation of the Jiao Shi Yi Lin (焦氏易林). I have several modern translations of the work and am usually reasonably sure of the text, but sometimes I am stumped. Also, my confidence in my own work is probably misplaced since my knowledge of Chinese, even after a considerable time devoted to its study, is still mainly a matter of how well Pleco can translate.

 

What I am looking for: A native speaker interested in working on the translation with me, checking my work and researching difficult terms. Example: From 36-19, 張季弱日. Is 張季 a name? 

 

Eventually this translation can become a non-academic version of the work and I think it would be a commercial success, so the collaborator/editor would get a portion of royalties on the work.

[Silent]

 

my confidence in my own work is probably misplaced since my knowledge of Chinese, even after a considerable time devoted to its study, is still mainly a matter of how well Pleco can translate.

 

I think it would be a commercial success

Can you elaborate on why this would be a commercial succes? Maybe because the amount you're saving on translators, teachers and tutors? Even if  you're fluent both in source and target language translating is extremely tough specially for more literary works with several layers and multiple meanings.

[Shelley]

Why would you want to do this especially as you say "I have several modern translations of the work"

 

Does the world need another translation?

Are you aware of any mistakes in the ones you have?

If so why not just get them corrected in future editions?

 

It seems like reinventing the wheel.

 

If you want to do this for yourself as an Chinese learning exercise then you don't need a collaborator more a tutor to check your work (and I guess they would want paying as they would have to put in a lot of time and effort)

 

Yes the answer to your question it is a name, using perapera Chinese comes up as a name Zhang Ji, if this stumps you and you plan on relying on Pleco to do the translating all I can say is I hope this is not a long book (not familiar with this work)  or you could be at it for a while.

[zhouwei]

I wonder why you translate that work .For me ,my major is classical Chinese literature ,that book is still difficult as it is not only written in ancient character but also it is about ancient philosophy.It has special words that one must understand it in <易经>。

[roddy]

Welcome to the site, Zhouwei! Good to have an expert with us.

[zhouwei]

thank you.if i can do something for your work ,let me know.

[CJGait]

To clarify, I am translating the work from Chinese to English. There are several modern Chinese translations of the work, and my process is to go over the Classical Chinese text looking in The Chinese Text Project and other sources for phrases in other works (there are numerous references to the Classic of Poetry, for instance), then go over one or more of the modern Chinese translations, and finally render the verse in English.

 

I say it would be a commercial success because there are no complete translations of the Jiao Shi Yi Lin in any western language and the market for books related to the Zhou Yi is quite robust.

[CJGait]

As to 張季. Thank you for confirming that it is name, but what I am looking for is someone who knows of any persons in the Han Dynasty or before it who may be the Zhang Ji referenced?

[OneEye]

I say it would be a commercial success because there are no complete translations of the Jiao Shi Yi Lin in any western language and the market for books related to the Zhou Yi is quite robust.

 

I'm not sure this is the case, but let's say it is. Why are you the person for the job? As you've said yourself, your Chinese is lacking. If this is important to you, wouldn't it make more sense to first bring your Chinese up to a level where you actually feel qualified to tackle it?

 

As for your 張季 question, wouldn't it be a simple matter of checking a commentary? If you're translating the book, I'm sure you have several of them, right?

[CJGait]

Why am I the person for the job? Because I may be self-taught, but I have been at it for more than ten years. I am capable of translating the work, I simply need someone to check my work. As you may have noticed, Chinese is a rather difficult language, particularly when some of the commentaries do not explain material because it is too obscure. I am also prepared by my life. Though my knowledge of the Yi Jing is superficial, it is lengthy. I began studying the Yi when I was a child, and in my youth created an oracle similar to the Yi Lin called the Yellow King's Garden oracle. This extended the figures to nine lines instead of six. It was...a failure as an oracle. The experience of working on it and thinking back on it for some forty years has given me a good feel for the Yi Lin. Some divinations the Yi Lin produces are remarkably spot on. It needs to be translated, and it's being ignored. So if I produce an idiosyncratic 'first cut' translation, that is fine. Someone else can take on the task of doing a translation 'the right way'. 

 

By the way, I'm getting a trifle tired of defending my intentions and abilities here. If someone wants to help, tell me about  張季 or request some sample verses to work through with me. 

[OneEye]

Best of luck to you.

[Lu]

I happen to have a bibliographical dictionary of the Han dynasty that I never would have thought would actually be of any practical use, so I'm happy to tackle this question.

Zhang Ji 張季, name and style of Zhang Shizhi 張釋之.

Zhang Shizhi has an entry that is rather too long to type up here, so I'll just hit the highlights:

- Appointed to high office, advised Han Wendi.

- Incidents illustrating how Zhang upheld the authority of the laws: once submitted a memorial charging the Heir Apparent with disrespectful conduct; finding a capable junior clerk, Wendi wanted to promote him out of turn, but Zhang persuaded him not to on the grounds that by doing so he would be encouraging service of the wrong type; two cases in which he ensured a lighter punishment, in accordance with the law, than the emperor wanted.

- This won him the admiration of Zhou Yafu and Ban Gu.

- Also served Han Jingdi for some years.

I hope this is of some use.

You might want to ensure access to more resources than just Pleco. In addition to annotated Chinese editions, I imagine you need some specialised dictionaries, at least.

Have you found an interested publisher yet? That can help give you an idea of how feasable and profitable this project might be.

[CJGait]

Lu, thank you! That is very helpful! 

 

I do wish Pleco had some biographical dictionaries available, but the ones that are in it are quite good. I have all of them except the specialized medical dictionaries, so that includes the ABC, the Grand Ricci (including the historic dictionary volumes) and the Hanyu Da Cidian, as well as a couple of other large Chinese-Chinese dictionaries and several other Chinese-English. Since Pleco parses words and phrases as it goes it really is a tremendous resource. Another great tool is the Chinese Text Project, which allows me to run searches on the parts of a particular Yilin verse, looking through both the Yilin and the corpus of pre-Qin literature for other occurrences. This can sometimes produce some very interesting results, even correlations that do not appear in the various modern Chinese translations and the variorum edition of the work. It is also a must since so many of the Yi Lin verses repeat, in whole or part, in various places in the work. So it's actually far less than 4096 verses in length.

 

As to publishers, I can always start it out as an e-book on Kindle and if a publisher wants to pick up the book for printing make a deal with them. Even if no one else in the world wants a copy it's very important to me to complete the work. 

 

Thank you once again for your assistance. Could you let me know the ISBN of your bibliographical dictionary? If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's from Brill and I'd have to sell a kidney to buy it.  

[Lu]

Yes, it's from Brill, A Biographical Dictionary of the Qin, Former Han & Xin Periods (221 BC-AD 24) by Michael Loewe, ISBN 9789004103641. An online version is in the works, but a license will likely also cost an arm and a leg. If you prefer keeping your kidneys, arms and legs, find a university library, they might have it or can help you find a copy to consult.

Even if no one else in the world wants a copy it's very important to me to complete the work.

This is good to know. To my knowledge, very, very few of such translations of classic works are commercially viable, but if you mainly do it for your own knowledge and satisfaction and commercial success is a bonus, you won't be disappointed.

[CJGait]

"This is good to know. To my knowledge, very, very few of such translations of classic works are commercially viable, but if you mainly do it for your own knowledge and satisfaction and commercial success is a bonus, you won't be disappointed. "

 

Well, I wouldn't be a very good Confucianist if I was in it just for the profit.   

[CJGait]

Okay, another example of a verse where a native speaker will have a much better feel for what's going on:

 

Jiao Shi Yi Lin

 

27 - 51

 

Leaving business behind,

Feasting without a care in the world.

Tao Zhu Gong’s son is cast in prison.

 

Below is the note I attach to the translation, but since I can't find any other references to Tao Zhu Gong's son being imprisoned, does anyone else have a source on this? Is it perhaps unique to the Yilin? That would be quite unusual.

 

Tao Zhu Gong (Fan Qi of Yu) was a 6th century BCE figure known for his acumen in government and business. Retiring from government service he entered the medicinal herb trade and made a massive fortune. After this he retired to a lake, wandering hither and yon. This Yilin verse is the only place there seems to be a shadow cast upon the tale of the ‘Chinese Croesus’. His middle son is accused of murder and imprisoned. The author of the Yilin often uses contrast and the principle of avoiding complacency to avoid misfortune typical of the Yi Jing’s philosophy as shown in the Great Treatise and other sources. So here he seems to be reminding the reader that even if you think you have life licked it will still reach up and bite you.

[Lu]

Perhaps also post the original verse?

[CJGait]

Oops, quite right! Here is 27 - 51: 

頤之:

 

震：從商近游，飽食無憂。囹圄之困，中子見囚。