"Y了个Z" constructions where "Y" isn't a verb and "Z" sometimes isn't a noun (slang, profanity)

[Demonic_Duck]

First off, what this thread is not about: it's not about verb-object constructions in which the 了 functions as a completed action marker and the 个 denotes one time, whilst also serving to make the construction appear a little more informal (e.g. “生了个孩子”).

I first noticed a good while ago that a common way of cursing in Chinese is “妈了个逼”. It's reasonably versatile - “我操你妈了个逼”, “去你妈了个逼的”, even “我笑你妈了个逼” are just some examples of its myriad uses. I also heard a variant which I was told is specific to 赣州 (edit: apparently it's not) - “妈了个巴子”.

At that time I still thought this grammatical pattern was unique to “妈了个B” expressions, where "B" is a word that either directly denotes or is euphemistically equivalent to "vagina".

The other day, however, I heard a guy on the subway exclaim “我了个去！” (the “我” being pronounced fourth tone). I did a little digging online and came up with these:

Baidu Baike
Some Other Baike

It seems it's a common 网络用语 (internetism?) and originally came from an anime called 《搞笑漫画日和》, and that the “了” can alternatively be written “勒” or “嘞”. There are also other examples of similar constructions given: “喵了个咪” (I assume this is euphemistic/censorship evasion for the aforementioned “妈了个逼”), “我嘞个擦”, even “果勒个然” and “不了个是”.

Anyway, it looks like this is just used for making humorous references to a certain character's idiolect, and that “了个”/“勒个”/“嘞个” don't actually serve any grammatical purpose. I guess my question is, does “妈了个逼” have any relationship to “我了个去”? The former doesn't seem to be an internetism, and people will use it in situations when they're genuinely angry and not joking around. If the two uses aren't related, is there any grammatical function served by “了个” in “妈了个逼” (even if there isn't in “我了个去”), and if so, what is it?

[scoff]

I also heard a variant which I was told is specific to 赣州 - “妈了个巴子”.

I've heard this many times in Beijing and Changchun. 

 

Quick search turned up the following thread,【妈了个巴子】是哪里的方言？where someone pointed out it's a northern thing.

[Divato]

I asked one of my Chinese friend, he can't answer the relationship and grammatical function of these two slang.

 

You may say 我去年买了个表(WQNMLGB) instead of 我去你妈了个逼 if you want to express your anger in an implicit way

 

Although B literally means vagina, it is not necessarily for cursing. For example, you could say 逗(逼/B/比) to descibe someone who is little stupid in a cute way and always do something silly that make you laugh.

[Guest realmayo]

Heard “妈了个巴子” in Wuhan plenty of times. 

 

Interesting topic, always wondered about the 了个, not least because I heard it as 那个 for a long time (l/n mixup).

[Demonic_Duck]

Well, seems I was way off with 赣州 then (I've only heard it used by 赣州人 though, and I live in Beijing).

 

You may say 我去年买了个表(WQNMLGB) instead of 我去你妈了个逼 if you want to express your anger in an implicit way

 

That's pretty great.

 

Although B literally means vagina, it is not necessarily for cursing. For example, you could say 逗(逼/B/比) to descibe someone who is little stupid in a cute way and always do something silly that make you laugh.

 

Although "vagina" means vagina, it's never used for cursing .

 

You're right though, and the obvious example is 牛逼 where it's definitely a positive thing and not considered particularly rude by younger people. Still, the literal intepretation seems appropriate if you're talking about someone's mother, doesn't it?

[Lu]

The other day, however, I heard a guy on the subway exclaim “我了个去！”

Is that really 我 though? Or rather wò, a (no doubt dirty) word that I have no idea what character it is?

Is the pattern perhaps Beijinghua or even something from Manchu or similar? It sounds so very Pekinese to me, could be wrong, but I don't think the Taiwanese (for example) curse like that.

[Nathan Mao]

Are you using the wrong character in 牛逼 as a euphemism? Or is that how you learned it?

[Demonic_Duck]

Is that really 我 though? Or rather wò, a (no doubt dirty) word that I have no idea what character it is?

 

I'm pretty sure it's 我. It's also pronounced wò in more regular cursing constructions (我去、我操、我靠、我擦 etc.) I had a teacher a while back that taught a lesson on curse words, and she noted that it was 我, but pronounced fourth tone.

 

Are you using the wrong character in 牛逼 as a euphemism? Or is that how you learned it?

 

That's how Chinese people write it (that or B/比). No-one uses the proper character (屄), many people don't even know what it looks like (I think partly because it wasn't possible to type with common input methods until relatively recently). The same is true of 操/肏.

[Nathan Mao]

Ah, that makes sense.

I figured that it was developed to get around censors and stuff, like writing "pron" and @$$ or using "freaking" instead of the "f" word in English.

But if it has completely replaced the original character, then it is functionally 逼 now, I guess; and I am wrong to think of 屄 as the proper character still.

[mouse]

 

I'm pretty sure it's 我. It's also pronounced wò in more regular cursing constructions (我去、我操、我靠、我擦 etc.) I had a teacher a while back that taught a lesson on curse words, and she noted that it was 我, but pronounced fourth tone.

 

I don't have any special insight, but when you mentioned it was a wò with insulting/negative connotations, I immediately thought of 龌龊的龌. I think 龌龊 is a bit of an old fashioned word, and internet slang often uses archaic words in a jokey way.

 

Of course, according to those links it's definitely “我”, but maybe the word got swapped early on, hence the different tone. But like I said, I really have no idea.

[Lu]

That's how Chinese people write it (that or B/比). No-one uses the proper character (屄), many people don't even know what it looks like (I think partly because it wasn't possible to type with common input methods until relatively recently). The same is true of 操/肏.

To be honest I was a little disappointed when I read your initial post and you had used the replacement character instead of the proper one :-) It's true, you never see it anywhere, but I really think it's a pity.

[anonymoose]

Didn't the 草泥马 song have lyrics something like 草泥马了戈壁?

[陳德聰]

When we say wò cao it's usually 卧 that we use... I don't think that this is actually related to 龌 at all, I think it's just a variation of 我操, which I thought was an abbreviation of 我操你妈了个逼, 我去你妈了个逼, 我靠你妈了个逼 etc.

 

I feel like 我了个去 comes from 我去, and all those 果了个然-type ones are just for 搞笑 on the internet... At least this is what I gather from my past life as a 宅男 gamer.

[Demonic_Duck]

I don't have any special insight, but when you mentioned it was a wò with insulting/negative connotations, I immediately thought of 龌龊的龌. I think 龌龊 is a bit of an old fashioned word, and internet slang often uses archaic words in a jokey way.

Interesting theory (though I don't think the "wò" has insulting connotations, it's the “去/操/靠” that has insulting connotations). I wouldn't say 龌龊 is particularly old-fashioned or confined to internet slang.

 

To be honest I was a little disappointed when I read your initial post and you had used the replacement character instead of the proper one :-) It's true, you never see it anywhere, but I really think it's a pity.

It's true, the original character is rather more evocative (for both “屄” and “肏”) - they're both great examples of those perfectly pictographic characters that Shao Lan and your beginner's Chinese textbook so fervently wish all 汉字 could aspire to be. However, aside from such lofty artistic concerns, I try to make my Chinese writing understandable to Chinese people, and as far as possible mirror their writing habits - as such, in this case I sacrificed art for pragmatic reasons.

 

When we say wò cao it's usually 卧 that we use... I don't think that this is actually related to 龌 at all, I think it's just a variation of 我操, which I thought was an abbreviation of 我操你妈了个逼, 我去你妈了个逼, 我靠你妈了个逼 etc.

This is basically my thinking too, although I never really considered “我操” et al. to be abbreviations. I'm not sure “我靠你妈了个逼” even makes sense - if we were to take this literally, wouldn't this simply mean "I lean on your mother's vagina"? More likely it's just a euphemism that happens to sound similar, in the same vein as “我擦” (though I guess "I rub your mother's vagina" actually makes quite a bit of sense).

 

I feel like 我了个去 comes from 我去, and all those 果了个然-type ones are just for 搞笑 on the internet... At least this is what I gather from my past life as a 宅男 gamer.

Sure, “果了个然” and such are patently ridiculous. Are you suggesting, though, that “我了个去” does not fit into the category of blatant mockery? If so, what would you say is the reason for the addition of “了个”?

[陳德聰]

I guess I got confused? In your post you asked if 妈了个逼 is related to 我了个去, but I was under the impression 我去你妈了个逼 is the root of 我去, which is the root of 我了个去.

[Kamille]

Didn't the 草泥马 song have lyrics something like 草泥马了戈壁?

Interresting. Yeah it does have something like it, actually using the same structure that Demonic Duck is talking about. They borrowed Gustav Mahler for that use:

在那荒茫美麗馬勒戈壁[...]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnO-FzIo0E

[Demonic_Duck]

I guess I got confused? In your post you asked if 妈了个逼 is related to 我了个去, but I was under the impression 我去你妈了个逼 is the root of 我去, which is the root of 我了个去.

Ah, I see what you mean. I always associated “我去” with “去死” and such - I feel like the word “去” itself can have some rather rude connotations, without needing to be an abbreviation for something explicitly obscene.

 

Interresting. Yeah it does have something like it, actually using the same structure that Demonic Duck is talking about. They borrowed Gustav Mahler for that use:

在那荒茫美麗馬勒戈壁[...]

I like to think that Mahler would've been proud to know that, over a hundred years after his death, his name was to be borrowed by Chinese netizens in their righteous struggle to evade internet censorship.

 

Speaking of internet censorship, my phone (on which I don't have a VPN set up) was mysteriously unable to access this thread earlier. It didn't have a problem accessing threads discussing other Chinese linguistic curios.

[Kamille]

At least the Taiwanese government isn't using one of his compositions as the garbage truck's tune 

 

(This video is 100% accurate, the garbage truck in Taipei and some other cities does play Für Elise, but not this in Kaohsiung, which plays another tune, unfortunately).

 

Having said that, if I was the German/Austrian government I would immediately change the garbage truck's tune into 月亮代表我的心 or 甜蜜蜜

[Guest realmayo]

I always associated “我去” with “去死”

 

Isn't 去 just another word for f*ck? Or have I been hearing 去你妈 as a lot ruder than it's meant to be?

[陳德聰]

No, you're right. 我去，我日，我操，我靠 etc. are all just permutations of the same thing.