Tones of “不好意思”

[Demonic_Duck]

I noticed some time back that when people say “不好意思”, it seems most of the time they pronounce it "bù hào yísì" (with tone sandhi making it "bú hào yísì"). I couldn't put a percentage on it, but living in Beijing it seems the vast majority of times I hear this phrase it's pronounced with this 2424 tone sequence, rather than the standard 4345. With that said, I guess I wouldn't really pay attention when people said it the standard way, so perhaps it's more like half-and-half.

 

Am I correct on the pronunciation for this alternative version? I could believe, for instance, that the “意” may be third tone rather than second, and/or that what I'm hearing as "sì" could in fact be "sī a".

 

Equally, does anyone know the reason for the difference? And is this common in other parts of China as well?

[歐博思]

you forgot "抱意思"!

[Carl Chen]

I just repeat the phrase and think its tone.

I think there is a sandhi on 思.

 

不好意思

If pronounce it separately, original tone should be 4341

When I speak this phrase, the tone I use is 4344, and more than 4345.

[Demonic_Duck]

you forgot "抱意思"!

 

Actually, that's basically what I'm referring to, although I feel it's more of a "b́ aò yísì".

 

I guess when people enunciate clearly they tend to stick to the standard tones.

 

When I speak this phrase, the tone I use is 4344, and more than 4345.

 

Now you say this, I'm feeling more doubtful about my original estimation of the tones.

 

Perhaps the best approximation at this point is "b́ aò yìsì", with a strong emphasis on the final syllable.

 

This still doesn't explain why “思” would be pronounced with a fourth tone though - you mention "tone sandhi", but this normally refers to predictable rules (of which there are actually very few in Mandarin).

[renzhe]

思 in 意思 is neutral tone on the mainland, at least according to the standard.

Neutral tone after the second tone sounds quite similar to a fourth tone -- think of 明白 for example.

What you describe still sounds quite strange.

[Demonic_Duck]

Hmm, well, I'm revising my hypothesis as I go here... maybe it's "b́ ào yìsī a". That would explain basically everything, except for why “好” is fourth tone, and why “思” is pronounced with its full value, even on the mainland.

[tooironic]

I agree with renzhe that you're probably hearing neutral tone, not fourth tone. At the very least you should remember that Northerners tend to speak certain phrases very quickly, so 我不知道 becomes berdao, 这样 becomes zhang, etc.

[Olle Linge]

Even though there are lots of neutral tones pronuncouced as their full, original tones in Taiwan, I think i have never heard someone say the 思 in 不好意思 with a first tone during the four years I've spent here. That sounds extreemely odd.

In general, I think this is just the result of speaking quickly. 不好意思 is a fixed expression and people tend to prononounce it as one word rather than as a phrase. Stressing each syllable would just be weird.

[arrow]

As far as i know 2424 tones are mostly used in southern dialects, such as Sichuan dialects.

[imron]

with tone sandhi making it "bú hào yísì"

I don't think I've ever heard this, yí in particular seems weird.

 

With regards to the first part, I still think it's bù hǎo, it's just that with the contractions mentioned by tooironic you miss most of the h, get the falling part of the third tone, and then skip the rising part because it's already moved on to the next syllable, resulting in something that sounds more like 抱