Should I study Master's in Chinese History or International Relations?

[tooironic]

Well... big news. I've finally made up my mind to take the plunge and apply to do a Master's degree in China. Though I am already fluent in Mandarin and have a Master's in Translation Studies from RMIT, for a long time I've toyed with the idea of furthering my knowlege of Chinese language and culture by studying in China. I've never studied in China before, nor lived there for that matter. And at the age of 27 I feel it's either now or never.

 

The deadlines for most of the best humanities schools have already passed, but that's not a big deal because I was deadset against living in Beijing or Shanghai anyway on account of the pollution and big city hustle. I worked out that there are some great unis that have deadlines on 1 July. My friends helped me narrow down my choices to Xiamen University, Hunan University and Sichuan University, with XU being the definite favourite (great history school apparently and beautiful campus and living environment).

 

But I still haven't decided what to study. Most of my friends recommend I do Chinese History, in particular Ancient Chinese History. But I was also considering doing International Relations. Here's my breakdown of the pros and cons:

 

Chinese History Masters:

Pros: Would graduate with a huge amount of knowledge and understanding about Chinese history and culture, something that few Westerners have, making me a rare expert. Could get a job as a consultant in the private sector, or policymaker in the public sector. Or I could be an academic, pursue PhD, etc.

Cons: A huge amount of reading and memorisation involved. Would need to work very hard on my wenyanwen which is close to non-existent at the moment.

 

International Relations Masters:

Pros: Relatively easier reading (my assumption). Already have an interest in international affairs, read about it every day. A degree in IR could also more attractive to Western employers due to its global focus (maybe).

Cons: The best job opportunities would be limited to working in a government department, either in China or Australia, which may not be all that interesting (my Chinese friend says I would be a 执行者, as opposed to a 决策者). Other friends claim an IR degree wouldn't have the depth of knowledge and prestige that a History degree would confer.

 

So I was hoping to hear what you guys think about this. I know there are some who have finished Masters degrees in China before, or been in similar situations. Obviously in the end the decision will come down to my own gut feeling, but I'd still love to hear what advice you smart people might have before making this big decision.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

PS I'm aware of all the potential pitfalls of doing a postgrad in history in China thanks to kdavid's excellent post. But my friends assure me that I would be less likely to experience these issues at higher ranking humanities schools such as those at Xiamen U, Hunan U or Sichuan U. Basically, these are some of the best history schools in China, and so you're more likely to get better teachers and more impassioned students there, not to mention a better study environment and facilities.

[Nathan Mao]

International Relations.

 

I don't think a Chinese History expert is as valued as you assert it is.  Plus, it is very specific: you aren't really qualified for anything not directly related to Chinese history.

 

But International Relations gives you a certification that you understand nations in interaction with each other.  That's kind of a semi-skeleton key for all sorts of jobs in finance, trade, law, energy technology, diplomacy, patent enforcement, etc.  Your Chinese expertise/experience is still valued, but you then have the basis for arguing that you qualify for that Japanese Trade Policy position because so much of their trade is with China and their methods of international relations impact that trade.

 

I have been looking at/for jobs related to China over the last 24 months, and there are many that require International Relations degree or experience.  Not one that I can remember said anything about Chinese history degree or equivalent experience.

 

And in most corporations/organizations, you have to start as a 执行者 for a few years until they trust you to promote you to a 决策者.  After you have spent 5+ years as a 决策者, you then establish yourself at that level to apply for 决策者 in other companies...but it is rare (if not actually impossible) to jump right to a 决策者 position just due to a Master's Degree.  PhD, maybe, in some cases...

[ZhangKaiRong]

 

 

But International Relations gives you a certification that you understand nations in interaction with each other.  That's kind of a semi-skeleton key for all sorts of jobs in finance, trade, law, energy technology, diplomacy, patent enforcement, etc.

 

As an IR degree holder, I absolutely disagree. IR major was teaching me a bunch of random stuffs from IR theory to international law and some kind of "international economics". Instead of getting some kind of expertise, I just learnt how to bullshit over "great and important" issues of international politics - though I graduated from a good European university with a very good GPA.

 

After graduation some of my classmates applied for a scholarship in China, they decided to attend a Master's on this field (one of them attended Xiamen Uni, other ones at SISU). Most of them just wasted their time "studying", the so-called course requirements were ridiculous (give a presentation on something, write two essays during the semester, attend the classes). SISU students didn't even have exams in the first year... The sad truth is that unless you really want to work in diplomacy, this major is a kind of joke even in Europe. The name itself sounds great, it is often hyped as well, but the content is really really disappointing.

 

Since you're a foreigner, you can find a job with this degree, but any kind of degree is OK. Among my friends there are people who were graduated in an English/Chinese major, or History, and now they are "Investment advisors" in China. Anything is OK as long as you're graduated from a well-known university.

 

If you're interested in International Relations, go for this major, but be realistic and don't expect too much. Especially if you're studying it in China.

 

PS.: you can try the International Trade&Economics master. That one at least gives you a title of an economist.

[roddy]

Either way, congratulations on taking the plunge! 

[gato]

Cons: The best job opportunities would be limited to working in a government department, either in China or Australia, which may not be all that interesting (my Chinese friend says I would be a 执行者, as opposed to a 决策者). Other friends claim an IR degree wouldn't have the depth of knowledge and prestige that a History degree would confer.

What kind of background do your friends have? I am not sure I understand the basis for this distinction between a history vs an IR degree.

The most concrete difference, I see, is that you will need considerable study to improve your 文言文 if you wanted to conduct original research (based on primary sources) in pre-1949 Chinese history.

[Nathan Mao]

Regarding Post #3:

I have no grasp of the job market in China, nor of the worth of International Relations degrees for a career in China.

 

My opinion is based on the notion that in the current US job market, a degree isn't supposed to give you the knowledge/ability to do any specific job, it is supposed to demonstrate that you have the ability to learn what that corporation/organization wants to teach you to do the job they want you to do.  

 

A degree checks a block on a Job Announcement Form so that HR will schedule an interview for you.  It is up to you (not your degree) to nail the interview and get the job.  But if you don't have the degree, the HR department won't even give you the chance to interview for the job.

 

And I can tell you from personal experience over the last two years: the ratio of jobs requiring an IR degree and/or experience to those requiring a Chinese History degree and/or equivalent experience is something like 100:0.

 

Now, maybe those 100 jobs that require an IR degree are not what you want.  Okay, no loss to you.

 

But most jobs that might value a Chinese History degree are still going to require a degree or years of equivalent experience in that field.  My Chinese fluency and cultural understanding did not win me a chance to interview for a Dept of Commerce Trade Policy Analysis position.

 

But if you aren't looking for a job in the US, then I withdraw my input.  I have zero knowledge of job opportunities outside the US.

[OneEye]

If the goal is purely to increase your cultural knowledge and language ability, I'd say go for history. Hopefully in the first year you'd be able to pick courses that won't require so much 文言文 so that you can take the time to work on it over the course of a year. I'd say go through the Fuller book and then something like Literary Chinese for Advanced Beginners 進階文言文讀本, and you should be fairly well equipped to handle what they throw at you. Those two should be doable in a year at your level, I'd think.

 

I had a friend who did her MA in international relations in China. I don't remember which university, but I know it was in Beijing. They rejected her MA thesis without even reading it because she cited Taiwanese books in her bibliography. I don't know how that situation turned out, but that's insane to me. Not to always peddle Taiwan, but...have you considered Taiwan? Academic freedom is a very nice thing to have when you're in academia.

[ZhangKaiRong]

I didn't say that Chinese history degree would be any better, Nathan I just reflected on that maybe the IR degree obtained in the US and obtained in other part of the world is not the same, work wise it is absolutely sure.

 

Degree is necessary to get a chance for an interview. But on the interview, it is often required to show-off some skills. If you're aiming for a governmental position, maybe you don't have to, it is enough to have somebody you know there - at least in most European countries it is the method to land on a position.

 

PS-OFF: there are a couple of degrees which can give you specific skills. In addition to IR, I also graduated in Finance. Nearly everything I studied at the university is used every day in my job, from the first day. My collegues who don't have specific financial education background, just learnt general business majors still have problems with complex financial issues. MNCs nowadays spend one or two weeks for training, which is far from sufficient.

[Nathan Mao]

@ZhangKaiRong,

Ah, I understand now.  Thanks for the clarification.

 

re: "skills": I've never been a "right out of college" job seeker, so I have no experience to say whether a degree can or cannot give you the skills necessary to show off to get the job, so I'll defer to you on that.

[Shelley]

Congrats, can't you do both?

 

Choose one as your major and then the other as your minor. Not sure if they do that kind of thing at Chinese universities, but in the US and even here in the UK, you are encouraged to do something else as an extra to your main course.

 

Whatever you choose, enjoy and have a whole heap of fun living in china

[fanglu]

Firstly, congratulations. It'll be an adventure, either way.

 

In terms of which degree you should choose, as you say, only you can decide, and in the end studying something you are interested in will always be better than something you have no interest in, regardless of other factors like employment prospects. But, for what it's worth, here are my views:

 

Firstly, I think you might be overestimating how much a potential employer will value, in of itself, "a huge amount of knowledge and understanding about Chinese history and culture". I doubt anyone is going to hire someone, fresh out of graduate school, as a guru on Chinese culture. If they wanted someone like that, they'd probably be looking for someone with experience in their particular field - the two examples that jump to mind are business (ie you know how doing business works in China, have lots of contacts, etc) and marketing (ie you have worked in advertising in China).

 

Having said that, I do think cultural knowledge has value, but it won't be enough, by itself, to get you a good job. Rather that would be a bonus to whatever else you offer (which could be specific skills - like finance, as zhangkairong suggests - or it could be generic skills, like critical thinking, teamwork, problem solving, etc). It won't be enough to get you a job, but it might give you an edge over someone else equally qualified.

 

Secondly, I wonder if you couldn't get a similar level of cultural knowledge studying a masters degree in China in a field which would also give you knowledge in the area you are interested in working in. If you studied a masters in IR, for example, I'm sure you would learn a great deal about how Chinese culture thinks about the world, conceptualises problems and deals with conflict. This cultural understanding may even be more valuable to an employer than knowing everything there is to know about Liu Bei. Or you could even consider a non-humanities degree, like finance, or economics.

 

Thirdly, I don't know that a history degree really caries any more prestige, to be honest. It's probably very much in the eye of the beholder. In my field (international relations), an IR degree would be seen more highly. Outside of government and academia, probably all humanities degrees are held in more or less the same (low) regard.

 

Fourthly, I think it's unlikely the Chinese government would hire you. Governments in general only employ their own nationals (particularly in organisations like foreign ministries), and the Chinese government is even more that way inclined. You might get a job as a clerk in a Chinese embassy or something, but, frankly, you'd probably want to aim higher than that. Maybe local governments or provincial governments are different, I don't know.

 

So, that leaves the Australian government, which probably means Canberra. Although the state governments are interested in trade promotion and so on, the vast majority of jobs that would interest someone interested in China are in the Commonwealth government (believe me, I've looked).

 

Recruitment in the Commonwealth public service is through responses to selection criteria, so you would need to show how your degree helped satisfy the criteria. For example, most jobs will ask you to demonstrate your ability to work with people from a variety of backgrounds - living in China shows you can do that. Some may ask you to show how you can deal with new situations - moving to China to study a degree would satisfy that, I assume. Some jobs (I'm thinking particularly of jobs at DFAT here) may ask you to demonstrate your knowledge of international relations - a degree in international relations would show that, I think it would be harder to argue a history degree did (that's not to say there's no way of demonstrating your knowledge of international relations other than by having a degree in it, but its the most obvious way).

 

I don't know much about international organisations like the UN, but I suspect their recruitment process (that is, when it's not a 'who you know' type situation) would be similar. So, if you are seriously interested in working in international relations, I'd suggest the degree in international relations.

 

One final thing:

my Chinese friend says I would be a 执行者, as opposed to a 决策者

I think this shows a bit of a misunderstanding of how government (at least in Australia) works. If you want to be a 决策者, I'd suggest skipping the degree and joining a political party. It's ministers and cabinet who make decisions on policy, the role of officials is to advise (so they make the right decisions ). Also, I wouldn't necessarily look down on being a 执行者 in the field of international relations. Which is more interesting, deciding your country should run for a seat on the UN security council, or flying around the world trying to convince people to vote for you?

 

Anyway, just some thoughts.

 

Disclaimer: I do have a (undergraduate) degree in history, and do not have a degree in international relations, and have no intention of doing one.

[Lin You Le]

@OneEye

I think that case is a little bit strange. Taiwan is China, if have this kind of problem maybe its in Taiwan, not in 大陆. I don't know about your friend, but a lot of foreign write very poor thesis and when they get rejected they want to blame everyone. I study 古代中医史, I use many Taiwanese books and I never heard about this kind of thing before. Many of my teachers research in Taiwanese books because Taiwan is very good in 中国古代史. I think study this field in Taiwan is better because they study more deeply 中国古代史, its not like 大陆 that they study more 中国现代史.

 

@gato

文言文 isn't 繁体字, 文言文 is the "writting style" in 汉、唐、宋朝. I don't know exactly how to say in English, but 文言文 is very ancient Chinese.

[OneEye]

I'm not going to get into a discussion with you on the political status of Taiwan, mkay?

 

But it is entertaining that you say that foreigners write poor theses, when the vast majority of the mainland scholarship in my field is absolute crap. There's some really good stuff, too, but most of it is terrible. Not to mention, you missed the part where they didn't even read her thesis, so they had no clue about its quality. They told her that they rejected it solely on the grounds that she had cited Taiwanese sources.

 

I don't know anything about your field, but I think it's safe to say that a thesis on the history of Chinese medicine which quotes Taiwanese sources is much less likely to upset the CCP than a thesis on international affairs that does the same.

[gato]

I know, but did you know that many people wrote in 文言文 before 1949 and almost everyone who could write did so in 文言文 before the 1920s?

[tooironic]

Thanks everyone who has contributed so far. I'll try my best to respond to each message.

 

@Nathan Mao: I think what you say makes sense. International Relations would probably make me more employable in the American jobs market, or in multinational companies. But I don't have much of an interest in working in either. If I graduated with a Chinese History degree, it's true that I would be ultra-specialised, but this is not necessarily a bad thing. The downside of studying International Relations, from what I can gather, is that you end up learning a lot of things about a lot of different subjects but in the end you cannot claim you're an expert in anything. Leaders who want to understand an economics issue will look for an economist, business people will look for a business graduate, etc. Also, theoretical mumbo-jumbo in the degree seems abound, and this may be worse when studying the major in mainland China.

 

@ZhangKaiRong: It's so great to get a perspective from an IR graduate. In your post though it is unclear whether you studied IR in a Chinese or European university, could you clarify on this? Also you say "Since you're a foreigner, you can find a job with this degree", could you elaborate on what jobs you're referring to here?

 

@gato: I suppose the "prestige" (probably not the best choice of words but I'm not sure how to put it exactly) in studying Chinese History, as opposed to International Relations, is that while IR graduates are a dime a dozen, you can probably count on your hands the number of Westerners who have studied a degree in Chinese History (in Chinese). I guess this doesn't give prestige so much as make you stand out of the crowd.

 

@OneEye: Indeed my main goal pretty much is to increase my cultural knowledge and language ability. I feel like even though I'm fluent in modern Mandarin, I have a lot to learn when it comes to Chinese history and Classical Chinese. As for studying in Taiwan... I fell in love with Taipei when I was there on holiday six months ago. But as most my friends are mainlanders I feel more drawn to studying in China. And if I go to Xiamen University, Taiwan is just a short flight/ship away. As for academic freedom, my impression is that this is only a major problem if a) the university you go to is a low or medium ranking one or b) you study a subject which may have political implications such as modern Chinese history. Of course there are no guarantees though.

 

@Shelley: Thanks for your encouraging words. I don't think you can do a major and a minor in any Master's program, just at the undergraduate level.

 

@fanglu: Thank you for writing such a detailed post. I understand that in most recruitment processes a History degree will not match up 100% with the qualification requirements of most industries. Again, "prestige" is not really the idea I was trying to express in my original post, but rather that thing that makes you extraordinary compared to other candidates, a real knowledgeable expert, and someone who has a nuanced understanding of China's past and present. I don't think an IR degree could make this happen for me. In fact my gut feeling is that it could not advance my understanding of global issues any more than my daily reading of international news and current affairs publications.

 

Two major thoughts since my original post:

 

1 - Still feel History is a better option for me. To be honest, the main reason I want to embark on this journey is to move my Chinese learning into a new challenging direction. Possible employment opportunities upon graduation shouldn't be a major concern for me at the moment. But regardless if I had to pick between the most obvious pathways - either work in international relations or become an historian/academic - I'd have to pick the latter. Though I know being an academic is no walk in the park, I've always loved learning, teaching and research, so if I can combine that with Chinese and a new challenging subject like history in a great environment like Xiamen I think this could really work for me. Plus I always have translating work to fall back on.

 

2 - Master's or PhD? I've had some friends suggest I study a PhD instead, since I already have a Master's in Translation Studies. At first it sounded like a good idea because obviously the title and level is higher than a Master's (which is quite long at 3 years anyway), but I was thinking it might be a better idea to enroll in a Master's for a year first, then consider transferring to a PhD if it feels right. Does anyone have any advice on this?

[Nathan Mao]

I'm glad you were able to recognize that my advice was inextricably linked to the US job market.

In the final analysis, when you look for a job, you are selling "you". Some people think they are selling their degree, but you seem to see through that illusion well.

Since you are selling "you", then naturally you want to be the best "you" you can be, according to your standards of what skill set you feel best able to sell.

It does sound like you want a skill set more than a certification, and as such, I agree that a History degree will do a much better job of helping you acquire that skill set...and that an IR degree is more just checking a qualification box.

I think you are making a good decision, and your logic seems sound to me.

I'd say take the plunge and go for the PhD, but testing the waters first is also not unwise.

[Shelley]

Well I would try the masters first. As my mother said when they wanted me to skip grade 2 and go straight to grade 3 "You will be better off being top of the class in Grade 2 than struggling at the bottom of Grade 3"

 

Was always glad for that cos I might have missed important stuff otherwise.

 

I hope you have a great time and enjoy your studies, oh to be a professional student again.

 

Oh and be sure to let us know how things go, as they say "Be sure to write"

[fanglu]

an IR degree is more just checking a qualification box

I agree with this, which is why I would never study IR. I also agree with tooironic's statement:

it could not advance my understanding of global issues any more than my daily reading of international news and current affairs publications.

I've never found myself to have less of an understanding of international relations, compared to my colleagues, for having not studied it. The only benefit it provides, in my view, is that you can use it to 'prove' you understand international relations when applying for a job. As Nathan Mao puts it, ticking a box.

 

On studying IR in China more specifically, I have a (Vietnamese) friend who studied a masters in international relations at the people's university of China. I read some of her course readings and also her graduation thesis and was extremely unimpressed. The whole course was structured to avoid controversy, it was highly theoretical (but focusing on very old theories), no current international political issues were discussed at all, and recent issues were only discussed where they didn't involve China. Discussion of Chinese foreign policy was not allowed. They did study it, but this study was entirely devoid of critical analysis and was focused on regurgitating the government's lines about China's peaceful rise. 

 

Her proposed thesis topic (on the Spratly islands) was not allowed because it was about conflict between China and Vietnam; she was encouraged to choose a topic on cooperation between the countries instead. In the end she wrote a narrative history of ASEAN, which was basically just a list of meetings and declarations with no analysis at all. I doubt it would have passed even as an undergraduate essay in a western university. Her assessors didn't actually seem to care about the content at all, though, and only commented on things like formatting.

[gato]

People's University (Renda) has a reputation of being a second 党校. But generally, most academics toe the Party line when it comes to politics. There is more academic freedom when one's research is more remote from modern politics, say Song Dynasty politics. This is the reason why there are so many historical costume dramas on Chinese TV, as well.

[tooironic]

Update:

 

OK, so I've put in my applications to study a Master's in Chinese History for the following universities:

 

Xiamen University (厦门大学)

Sichuan University (四川大学)

Central China Normal University (华中师范大学)

Wuhan University (武汉大学)

 

I've listed them in order of preference. Xiamen Uni has a beautiful campus and its history school has a good reputation too. In fact, I'm not too keen in getting into Sichuan Uni or the unis in Wuhan but considering China only has one intake month a year (September) I thought I better have a few back-ups just in case. I was going to apply for Hunan University but according to their website they don't provide history courses, which is strange.

 

The application for Xiamen University took about a week to prepare. Among the usual paperwork, they required two recommendation letters from university professors, a physical examination, certified copies of degrees and transcripts and a 1000字 study plan. I was able to write 1x Chinese and 1x English recommendation letter for my previous professors for them to sign and attached official letterheads to. For the physical examination, I had to get full blood tests and urine tests, and even an ECG and chest scan which required me to go to a second clinic. All of this, and my friend tells me I will probably have to get another physical done once I'm in the China by an officially recognised hospital. Oh well.

 

The applications for the other universities, by contrast, were much simpler. I'm hoping this is a good sign, that Xiamen University has higher standards for students (and possibly teaching) than other unis. All of them required both an online application AND a postal one, but strangely Sichuan Uni still haven't given me online "verification" (whatever that means) of my application. If I don't hear anything from them soon I'll contact them about it. The Chinglish in the Sichuan uni application form was hilarious - at one point they translated 未婚 has "spinsterhood" and 已婚 as "double harness"!

 

One thing I've learnt from enquiring with all these universities is that very few of them seem to provide "course outlines" like Western universities do. While some unis allow you to pick a particular type of history such as Modern or Ancient, many of them only provide a Master's degree in 中国史. This doesn't really worry me too much though, since my friends told me that this is standard practice in univerities in China. What's more important is the quality of the teachers you end up getting, and you're much more likely to get good teachers in unis that have reputable history schools, which all of the unis I applied for do.

 

Another thing I noticed was that there does not seem to be a distinction between Master's by Research and Master's by Coursework that we have in Australia. My Chinese friends tell me that this is normal, and that it's most likely that the uni I get accepted into will structure classes over most of the three-year period, with a semester or so left at the end to write a minor thesis. Others have said that it's likely the 2nd year will be devoid of any clases. I'll be clarifying with Xiamen University about this if they end up giving me an offer of enrollment (录取通知书).

 

So yeah, so far, so good. I guess I should find out if I've been accepted into any of these unis over the next month or so. I'll keep you all posted. Cheers.